Called on a steal...now what?

[Sam T.]

These are hands from two different low buy-in Stars tournaments. In each case, the blinds are 50/100.

Hand 1:

Hero has t1300, and is on the button with K /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif. Folded to him, raise to t300.

SB re-raises to t500. Hero...

This re-raise is terrible for me. If I call, I'm pretty much committed to the pot. If I fold, I'm in all-in/fold territory, and will have to start looking for a place to push and pray. My play in white:

<font color="white">I called, which I now think was a mistake. Flop came rags, and SB checked. I pushed, he called, and flipped over 99. No help, and I'm out. </font>

Hand two:

Hero is doing a bit better with t4000, and has been building his stack without showing down many hands. He's on the button, and it's folded to him with Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif, and raises to t300. SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: Q72r (Great, top pair, no kicker.)

SB checks, Hero bets t800. SB raises to t1600.

Hero...

I can't imagine there's much room for discussion here. I think I have to fold this. He doesn't seem particularly tricky, so it seems unlikely that he's trying this with a hand that's worse than mine. My play in white:

<font color="white">Hero had an sudden onset or moronitis, and decided he was being bluffed. Hero pushed, was shown JQo, and went to bed. Not sure it was a very good call on his part (I would have played AQ precisely the same way), but in the end he had all my chips.</font>

[UnderUrSkin]

Stealing from the button can be tricky. Most players put you on exactly that, a steal.

Stack sizes would be nice, but absent that info:

Hand 1 - I'd push. Your stack is too small to be making tricky plays, but given the way you played it, I fold to SB's reraise.

Hand 2 - Fold Fold Fold. Pick better spots and better cards to steal with!

[The Student]

Hey Sam,

In the first hand, did the villian re-raise you another 500, or raise you 200 to 500 (total)? The reason I ask is because if the SB made it 500 total, I don't think you need to consider yourself committed to the pot. You can call the extra 200 for the pot odds, and take a look at the flop, but give it up if it looks ugly. Yeah, you'd then be on a shorter stack of 800, but you can still survive another round on that and hope for a hand good enough to push with and build your stack back up. However, if the SB re-raised you another 500 on top of your initial 300, then I think you have to lay it down.

I hate when those punks in the blinds call my steal attempts, so I've been trying to avoid making these moves on the button (because you're more likely to be put on a steal and therefore more likely to be looked up). Instead, I've been making more moves from the CO and CO+1.

ts -

[SossMan]

Lesson: Stealing from the button with medium stacks sucks.


[ QUOTE ]


Not sure it was a very good call on his part (I would have played AQ precisely the same way), but in the end he had all my chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you would have played AQ and Q6 the same way, then I assume you would have also played Q3,Q4,Q5,Q8,Q9,QT the same way too.
Do you still think he should have feared AQ or better?

[Sam T.]

[ QUOTE ]
Lesson: Stealing from the button with medium stacks sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying it's a bad play on my part, or just a bad position to find myself in? Is there a point at which your stack small enough that you don't try to steal? 15xBB?

[ QUOTE ]
If you would have played AQ and Q6 the same way, then I assume you would have also played Q3,Q4,Q5,Q8,Q9,QT the same way too. Do you still think he should have feared AQ or better?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very interesting question. I've never had a problem with stealing with garbage (I just try not to show it down). Do you not bet this flop? (I assume you don't call the raise here...)

[docknet]

Q6 is a terrible hand, suited or not. If your steal doesn't work, get away from it.

[MLG]

There are actually some fairly interesting points about stealing while small/medium. Deffinitionally you are going to get yourself in some extremely marginal situations. I'm generally an extremelely aggresive/hyper aggresive blind stealer, but with that stack size I will lay off if I dont have dependable reads on the blinds (either from watching them today, or from my notes). These reads will often sway my decisions in blind stealing situations. Also, I will raise more like 2.5x than 3, not a huge difference but it helps. Neither of these situations are particularly easy to play (that is the definition of marginal after all) so its pretty difficult for us to let you know what you "should" have done.

[gergery]

Hard to say what you should do without reads and some stack his info on your opponents. But in general, K9s is definitely good enough to steal with and I’m not folding it for T200 when the pot is 950. I also don’t consider myself pot committed when I could fold with 8xbb left on a terrible flop and having position on the button meaning a full orbit before I see blinds again. I also think pushing the flop is marginal, since you can only push 800 into an 1150 pot, and his preflop raise means you are likely behind here – he needs to fold at least 40-50% of the time to make a push correct, and preflop reraisers who min raise tend to have decent hands.

I fold Q6s from the button unless blinds are very tight or I am big stack and they are medium stacks and pretty tight. Qx,Jx where x-little are terrible hands to play as you can rarely feel good with where you are. I’d rather steal with 76o or 64s

--Greg

[Potowame]

1 added note that I have read here several times. While you are blind stealing, have a plan before you raise. You should determine before hand what your line of action is going to be prior to stealing. Of course, This will change for each player left to act. You need to think Like this , okay if player A (rock) raises Iam gone, but if player B (raises Loose prefolp , folds to much on the flop) I am calling and betting out the flop.

Theres no real exact answer that anyone can give you to either hand, except it depends.

[TheDrone]

[ QUOTE ]
If I call, I'm pretty much committed to the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure what you mean here. You are going to call all-in or push no matter what the flops brings? 500 in chips are no longer yours, so now the remaining 800 must go in? I hope that's not what you meant.

Hand 2: Your 800 bet was too big for top pair on a rainbow flop. You are better off making it 400 - 500 to find out where you stand. That's plenty for the villain to fold if he missed. Since there are no likely draws out there, the only benefit of a big bet would be if you think he could fold a higher kicker.

[Bernas]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 - Fold Fold Fold. Pick better spots and better cards to steal with!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, if he picked better cards to steal with than it wouldn't be a steal.

[betgo]

Steal with an ace, two high cards, a suited gapper, a small pair. Don't steal with hands like Q6 unless there are special circumstances. These include you have some reason to think the blinds are particularly likely to fold. The blinds could also be so big that your pot odds and the chance of folds justify a push with a marginal hand.

Raising with AJ is not a steal. Raising with QJ, 22, A6s, or 97s could be a steal. Raising with Q6 or 72 is usually just a bad play. Even with a "steal", you have to be prepared for getting called.

Once you raised with Q6, it was OK to fire at the pot when a queen hit, but you probably need to fold when you get action.