proper odds to chase?

Hi all. Wanted to get your opinion on a 10-20-30 hand that I played on Sunday at the Trop. Did I make a mistake chasing this hand, or was I getting the proper odds?


Player 1 brings in with the 2s. Player 2 calls with Jd. Player 3 calls with the 9s. Three players fold to me and I call with the 3h and 2c/3c in the hole. Player 5 is last to act and also calls with an Ace. Normally I would have folded fearing the Ace would raise, but I had played with this lady many times and have saw her raise the bring in maybe once or twice.


4th Street: Player 1 catches a spade of some sort. Player 2 catches a diamond. Player 3 (i forget what he had, catches a non-scary card). I catch a 2h to give me two pair. Player 5 gets an unsuited 8. Player 5 bets out and it is called all the way around to me. I call with 2 pair.


5th street: Player 1 catches a brick. Player 2 catches a diamond. Player 3 catches a brick. I catch the 10h, giving me 3 hearts on board. Player 1 again bets out and it is called all around. I was pretty sure that player 2 had a flush at this point, so his call surprised me. I would have probably folded to a raise here, but with over 160 in the pot, I call also.


6th street: Player 1, 2, and 3 all catch bricks. I catch the 10c to give me 3 pair (the 10's and 3's are both live). Player 5 catches a king to give her kings on board. She comes out betting $30. Again, all 3 players call. I call also (310 in the pot). Note: I am certain that Player 5 has kings and 8s. She is an old lady that doesn't even consider an opponent's hand when betting. I'm almost positive that player 2 has a flush. However, player 2 is also a very passive player and won't raise if anyone is representing a hand that can beat him.


7th street: checked around to me. I catch the 3s to give to me a full house. I bet and get called by Player 5 (kings up) and player 2 (flush) and drag in a 370 pot.


My question is this: Was I wrong to chase this hand? I knew from 4th street that I would need to fill up to win. However, I was last to act on every round, so I never had any fear of raises when I called. I'm not certain this approach is right though. I'm currently reading Slankky's Theory of Poker which discusses implied odds, so I'm trying to determine if I was right to chase. Thanks for your time.

small pair with a small or medium kicker will usally compound your error on later streets if U improve to two small pairs.

Any decent player would have raised his flush since the pot was sufficiently large.

The passive player was playing too passively.

Even a passive player usually raises with a made hand.

He made a serious mistake by not playing his made hand aggressively.

U made a potentially serious mistake by calling a semi-dead small pair with no kicker--even though U had a small two str8 and a two flush.


Anyway,the poker gods were with U..

Congratulations on taking it down.

Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

Ps I know that U did not come all the way to the casino to fold your hands(LOL)!

Thank u for your great response. Do u play much heads up stud at paradise and do u have any advice on who i should avoid playing. There seems to be a lot of regulars, but i have got lucky and beat some of them

You played fine. 3rd street is a little tricky, as a fold is probably in order, but I find myself tempted for $3 in multi way action like that myself. Only the most patient fold that hand. Once you make two pair on 4th, I would have raised if the position was such that I could have possibly gotten someone out. I certainly would have raised my possible flush on 5th street except the position seems funny. I can't really follow your position as it seems like you were in the back every time, but on 4th seat 5 bet and on 5th seat 1 bet, and you wrote "bet again" but it wasn't seat one that bet on 4th, was it. If I was in the back, I just call, but if I can put any pressure on people on either 4th or 5th street, I am going to raise to try to make 2 little pair good. Given the multi way action, the pot odds are worth it for you to pay extra to possibly drive someone out. Even on 5th, better could have a buried pair with a 4 flush. Don't forget player 1 was the bring in and could have anything, his door card is not necessarily indicative of his starting hand.


Rereading your post quickly now, I see you were in seat 8 (or close), so a raise on 4th street was appropriate. At this point there's no reason for you not to think that two little pair can win this hand, PLUS, you have the cover of representing a flush draw. Now on 5th, when you catch the heart, you can bet like you have a flush and really put pressure on the other hands.


In summary: 3rd street call is iffy. After that raising on 4th or 5th is the play (4th in this particular case) and calling on 6th is imperative, given your possible 5 outs getting > 10-1 on your call and approx. 1/8 chance of filling.

I did think about raising on 4th st to represent a a heart draw. However, the table was very loose-passive, so I am almost certain that no one would have folded. Despite this, though, I still think raising on 4th st. would have been a good play. Since I was last to act, I probably could have gotten a free card on 5th if I had raised on 4th.


I don't think the 5th st. raise would have been a good play, though. I did not raise because I feared a reraise by the 3 diamonds on board.


Thanks for your input.

You should have never called on 3rd street. "nits & lice" -- as twos and threes are known -- just ain't much of a poker hand. Read Roy West.

Even with the suited connecter, you need a lot of luck to turn this hand into a winner, since anytime you make trips, your hand is exposed.

Jim your first mistakes are allways the most costly. Split 3s with a 2 kicker is an absolute fold hand! To analyze 4th, 5th, 6th, and river play only helps to reinforce the initial mistake. Think about playing with split 3s with a 2 kicker everytime you start with them. What picture does this bring to mind? I hope not a good one! Let that picture reinforce in your mind and then move on to soild winning poker. If not this win will be truly costly indeed!