OT: How do those of you without "real" jobs get credit cards?

[eric5148]

Some background about myself: I live with my parents. I've never needed or wanted a credit card, I've never bought a house or car. Poker has been my only source of income for about 3 months now, and I would like to keep it that way.

Now that I have almost enough money to buy a car, my parents tell me I can't buy a car without good credit, and I can't get a credit card without a "real" job. Is this true?

I strongly suspect them of using this as a way to discourage me from playing poker, because they don't see it as a respectable way to make a living. But, I guess that's a topic for another thread.

-Eric

[namknils]

I'm sure there are some cards that you can get. The credit card companies like charging 18-25% interest on you, so they will probably give you the card and hope you can't pay it off every month. They'd be even happier if you had a mountain of debt to transfer to their card.

[Alobar]

yeah, you need credit in order to get a car, and a real job. You dont need a credit card tho. But basically with a big enough down payment anything can be overcome. A car is also a good way to build credit, if youve got the cash to pay for the entire thing, dont do it. Give them a big enough down payment that they dont car that you dont have a job or credit, and then make your payment on it every month (on time) and in the future you will have some credit.

[John Deere]

One thing you can do is get a Capital One card... they will give one to almost anyone. They'll probably start you off with a $500 limit, and you can get it increased as you start using the card frequently and paying it off properly.

The other thing you can do is get a card with your name on it linked to your parents' credit cards. Have your parents use it to pay bills, large expenses, etc. to build your credit. I've never done this (parents never gave me a credit card in high school, and I went to the bank and opened up a new, non-custodial account the day I turned 18), but have friends who are still weening off their parents and have 50k credit limits because of it, despite being unemployed.

Good luck!

[Evan]

How old are you? I'm 19, and I get like 10 credit card offers every week.

[eric5148]

Thanks for the replys. No way would I want a card that's linked to my parents, though. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

About the car: We're not talking Hummer here, just a 4-5 year old Buick or something around 8-10K. I was hoping I could just write one check for the whole thing and not worry about monthly payments.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
How old are you? I'm 19, and I get like 10 credit card offers every week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ten, holy [censored] thats like a grain of sand compared to what I get.

Then again I am twenty

[eric5148]

21, and I've never gotten a credit card offer.

[namknils]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How old are you? I'm 19, and I get like 10 credit card offers every week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ten, holy [censored] thats like a grain of sand compared to what I get.

Then again I am twenty

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't stop boys, I'm Twenty-TWO and still get them all the time.

[brandon]

You need a secured credit card. You give the company $500 and they give you a $500 credit limit. Its how I built my credit. After 6 months or so, you will start getting unsecured credit card offers. Get yourself a couple more credit cards and you are good to go.

As far as not having a job. Count your poker winnings. Make sure you say that you make at least $20,000 a year /images/graemlins/wink.gif


http://www.credit-land.com/1018/1018_page_4218_3926.php

[namknils]

This is kinda odd, maybe your parents throw them away before they get to you, you know, for your protection. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[byronkincaid]

If you're buying a car with cash, why would you need a credit history?

[eric5148]

[ QUOTE ]
This is kinda odd, maybe your parents throw them away before they get to you, you know, for your protection.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, no, I always get the mail since I "work" at home.

[bonanz]

for when you want to buy a house, or a plane or something you can't/don't want to pay cash for.

[byronkincaid]

[ QUOTE ]
my parents tell me I can't buy a car without good credit

[/ QUOTE ]

?

[BradleyT]

You can get a sub-prime card with no credit/bad credit. A few years back I had bad credit and had to get a secured visa. I had to pay $50 (which went into a savings account that's now at like $53 with interest heh) and the credit line was only like $300 but today it's up to $3,250 credit line, 9.99% APR, no annual fees, 1% rewards.

Check out http://consumers.creditnet.com/cc/subprime.html
And if you ever get into credit trouble, check out the forums there. It's the 2+2 of the bad credit world.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
my parents tell me I can't buy a car without good credit

[/ QUOTE ]

?

[/ QUOTE ]
They're lying to you or don't realize you've made enough to pay in cash. Regardless, if you're 19 and not in school they should boot you out on your ear.

[bonanz]

[ QUOTE ]
my parents tell me I can't buy a car without good credit


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?

[/ QUOTE ]

you can certainly buy a car without credit, your post just gave the impression that it was not important to build a good credit rating because of this

[Blarg]

I bought my first care before I had any credit. Car credit is some of the easiest to get. I used to work for a bankruptcy attorney and we saw people with fresh bankruptcies still getting new cars all the time. That's because car loans have little risk compared to many types of loans, and extremely high interest. Because of the way they're structured, even if you pay them off early, you pay the interest in full as if you kept the full term of the loan. There really some of the more nasty loans to get into, in a lot of ways. But they will definitely build up your credit; just at a very high price. However, good credit is so valuable that it's worth getting screwed kinda hard for, if it doesn't happen too often.

[PhatCasino]

no credit means bad credit in most cases.... unless your a student. if your 21 and still fulltime student you can def. get a bunch of credit cards. try to go that route, when they ask for employer you have an option to put down the school name.. apply (not amex, they won't take you) and you'll get some nice credit in about 1-2 months... should have 500-1000 limits on your cards.. i'd say go and get about 3 cards right now. apply all at once, less of a hit on your non-existant credit... work them up, in less than 18 months your 2000 cumulative credit line should then become at least 5000 cumulative... never have a late payment, etc....

[brandon]

[ QUOTE ]
I bought my first care before I had any credit. Car credit is some of the easiest to get. I used to work for a bankruptcy attorney and we saw people with fresh bankruptcies still getting new cars all the time. That's because car loans have little risk compared to many types of loans, and extremely high interest. Because of the way they're structured, even if you pay them off early, you pay the interest in full as if you kept the full term of the loan. There really some of the more nasty loans to get into, in a lot of ways. But they will definitely build up your credit; just at a very high price. However, good credit is so valuable that it's worth getting screwed kinda hard for, if it doesn't happen too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

WRONG WRONG WRONG

I work in the retail automoblie industry. Car credit is some of the hardest type of credit to get. Having no credit is much worse than having semi-bad credit.

[jakethebake]

[ QUOTE ]
WRONG WRONG WRONG

I work in the retail automoblie industry. Car credit is some of the hardest type of credit to get.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're insane.

[cbfair]

Credit is one of the most over used and abused crutches in America today. I'd encourage you to do anything you can to avoid getting a credit card or taking out a car loan. Why would anyone pay over 36 months for something that loses its value as rapidly as a car does? You're on the right path if you have the cash and are prepared to spend it on a car that is reliable and meets your needs.

No credit history is needed if you pay cash for a car plus it offers significant bargaining power, especially if you buy from an individual - find a car you like, get it checked out by a mechanic then go back to the owner with a stack of crisp $100 bills. Once you start riffling that cash in your hands, they'll take any reasonable offer you suggest. Make the lowest offer you think is reasonable, or better yet, ask them what they want for the car then tell 'em "that's not good enough" they'll look at that cash and say a number that may blow your mind.

Credit cards are a separate issue and I believe they can only get you in trouble. Cash is King! A bunch of credit card debt will NOT help you get a home loan, but it can put you on the fast-track to foreclosure. Only pay stubs and/or tax records will verify your eligibility for a home loan. There are several threads here that deal with creating a corporation for the purpose of "legitimizing" your professional poker career, perhaps you'll get some insight there as to how that can help you qualify for a mortgage.

[daryn]

here's the thing. if you're in college, you will get crazy amounts of credit card offers all the time. the reason is simple. college kids aren't responsible in general, and will max out their credit cards fairly easily, which makes the credit card company mucho $$$...

back when i started college, i applied and got a credit card. had like a $1,000 limit or something. i'm responsible, so when i used the card for purchases, i always had the cash to back it up. when the bill came, i would just pay it off in full right away. doing this over and over again, i established good credit. over the years they keep bumping my limit up up up, and i always pay the bill. my limit is like $20,000 right now, and i still use it just to buy stuff that i can afford.

i'd imagine my credit is pretty good right now, i'm not in debt, and i don't have a "real job".

[jakethebake]

Right. And don't even think about buying a house until you have $200K in cash. Not that you could finance it anyway because you've never had a credit card or bought a car on credit so you have no credit history.
[ QUOTE ]
Credit is one of the most over used and abused crutches in America today. I'd encourage you to do anything you can to avoid getting a credit card or taking out a car loan. Why would anyone pay over 36 months for something that loses its value as rapidly as a car does? You're on the right path if you have the cash and are prepared to spend it on a car that is reliable and meets your needs.

No credit history is needed if you pay cash for a car plus it offers significant bargaining power, especially if you buy from an individual - find a car you like, get it checked out by a mechanic then go back to the owner with a stack of crisp $100 bills. Once you start riffling that cash in your hands, they'll take any reasonable offer you suggest. Make the lowest offer you think is reasonable, or better yet, ask them what they want for the car then tell 'em "that's not good enough" they'll look at that cash and say a number that may blow your mind.

Credit cards are a separate issue and I believe they can only get you in trouble. Cash is King! A bunch of credit card debt will NOT help you get a home loan, but it can put you on the fast-track to foreclosure. Only pay stubs and/or tax records will verify your eligibility for a home loan. There are several threads here that deal with creating a corporation for the purpose of "legitimizing" your professional poker career, perhaps you'll get some insight there as to how that can help you qualify for a mortgage.

[/ QUOTE ]

[PhatCasino]

[ QUOTE ]
Credit cards are a separate issue and I believe they can only get you in trouble. Cash is King! .

[/ QUOTE ]

very wrong, having no credit history will get you in trouble big time. if your smart, when your a month or two away from your 18th birthday you should apply for your first credit card.. pay in full, get rewards, and build it up. it is probably one of the most important things you can do besides getting an excellent job + beyond a college education...

if cash is king, and credit is not important at all, why do all businesses have debt? why is it essential to profit? explain that one... knowing where your money is, and how to use cash and credit differently will enable you to make sound investments and have your money do the work. cash is certainly not king

[cbfair]

Ok, I know this is a tough sell and goes against what most of us accept as conventional wisdom. The fact is that credit card debt is extremely expensive (12-28% interest is the norm) and most Americans, over 50% according to Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=11377), carry a balance from month to month. The average credit card debt for all Americans (including those with no cards) is $2,947. Credit card debt is avoidable and unnecessary for most of us.

Businesses commonly carry debt because the opportunity cost of spending cash to expand operations outweighs the cost of borrowing at 8% or so. Most individual households do not have this luxury and we end up justifying cards and home equity loans as a "good investment" this is just not the case. You can't borrow yourself to financial freedom. Of all people, I would expect this group to understand that taking unnecessary consumer loans is -EV in the long run. This is hard to conceive of at 18 or 19 years old but I'm coming from the assumption that you're looking to maximize expectation over time, like retirement and beyond.

Now, I'm not blind to the fact that it's unrealistic to assume that anyone will pay cash for their first home, please consider that it's unrealistic to assume a first home should cost 200k (depending on your location - there are exceptions like LA and San Francisco, etc. maybe these aren't the best places to pursue an online poker career). In many areas of the country, a modest home can be had for 75k to 120k; I ran some numbers and a person making 30,000 a year with no credit card debt or car payment can typically qualify for about a $60k loan; that's just enough to buy a $75,000 home if you put 20% down to avoid PMI. It wouldn't take too much looking to find a loan officer happy to write a $60,000 note to a person carrying $15,000 cash, no debt and two years of proven income in their chosen profession. This would include "private business owner" if your books were in order.

[cbfair]

[ QUOTE ]
I ran some numbers and a person making 30,000 a year with no credit card debt or car payment can typically qualify for about a $60k loan; that's just enough to buy a $75,000 home if you put 20% down to avoid PMI.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, forgot to include thats a 15 year fixed-rate loan at 8% - Monthly payment $580 + $120 taxes and insurance. You would never waste money on a 30 year loan, right?

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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I bought my first care before I had any credit. Car credit is some of the easiest to get. I used to work for a bankruptcy attorney and we saw people with fresh bankruptcies still getting new cars all the time. That's because car loans have little risk compared to many types of loans, and extremely high interest. Because of the way they're structured, even if you pay them off early, you pay the interest in full as if you kept the full term of the loan. There really some of the more nasty loans to get into, in a lot of ways. But they will definitely build up your credit; just at a very high price. However, good credit is so valuable that it's worth getting screwed kinda hard for, if it doesn't happen too often.


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WRONG WRONG WRONG

I work in the retail automoblie industry. Car credit is some of the hardest type of credit to get. Having no credit is much worse than having semi-bad credit.

[/ QUOTE ]

My own experience proves you wrong.

I got a car before I had a single credit card. If no credit is worse than bad credit, as some say, why did I get the credit to buy a new car at a Ford dealership all those years ago? It may be bad, but it's hardly undoable.

And car credit is very easy to get -- you just have to not picky about the interest rate.

New car retailers tend to have finance companies they put you through first, and when one doesn't approve, they float you by another company. Just because a preferred lender doesn't approve you doesn't mean the process is over by a very long shot.

And getting a used car is infinitely easier. In my work in bankruptcy, I saw people paying off car loans at well over 20% per years. These were frequently people who got car loans IMMEDIATELY after bankruptcy, but some were just foreigners or poor people who had no credit history and no way to prove their creditworthiness. They still need cars though.

And they got them. I saw their car notes, by the hundreds.

So...my personal experience and the experience of the hundreds of others I've seen definitely proves you wrong.

Now, if you're saying it's extremely hard to qualify for whoever a particular dealership tries to qualify you for first, there may be some value in that. I do note, though, that living on my own, with a lousy income and NO credit either good or bad, and no help from parents and only a $1,000 downpayment, people couldn't wait to sell me a new Ford.

If I had been willing to accept those loans that charged over 20% per year, I'm sure I could have had even much worse credit and driven out of some lot somewhere.

I think a lot depends on how much credit you're asking for and where you're asking. I asked for a car note that was roughly $10,000, for a Ford Escort back in the late 80's. Lots of people do that. If you're wanting a $30,000 car for a $1,000 downpayment with no credit history, it would be different. But if you were willing to pay a 23% interest rate, that would tilt things in your favor again. And I've seen a ton of that done.

[Blarg]

I've gone out with friends who regularly buy and fix up used cars and resell them, or just resell bargains they have.

What you say about flashing cash is the way to do it. When someone decides to sell their car it's usually out of desperation or else they just can't wait to get rid of it -- maybe so they can make a downpayment on a new car they'd like to get right away(or just spent a big downpayment buying).

Flashing a big fat wad of cash works like a charm. A check just doesn't do it -- cash is real and tangible. Saying no to a wad of cash being flashed right in your face is very hard for most people to do, even if it's less than what they wanted.

I used to carry the extra cash sometimes. If a good deal didn't seem to be happening, my friend would come up "short." That almost always worked. If it didn't, he would "borrow" some money from me and keep bargaining. After seeing enough "maybe I'll lose this deal" situations and enough cash being counted and recounted, very few people wouldn't be happy taking a substantial discount to their original selling price. And usually it never even had to get that far.

[brandon]

Blarg, look at what I said.

You are comparing people coming out of BK's to a kid with no job and no credit history. Bad credit is better than no credit. You are talking about 2 completly different situations.

[dragon14]

If you have a local juco or 4 year college nearby, there should be plenty of credit card applications in the student center, bookstore, etc. Try to find a no-fee one and apply for it. They will assume you're a student and give you one. Also, there's no reason not to put your poker income on your application.

With a job (self-employed, they don't have to know what at) a savings account and a college credit card application it will be impossible to be turned down.

Also, nearly every bank will have a check card. Once you get one, you will be on a credit card mailing list and receive many offers.

Finally, as long as you're paying taxes, go ahead and file the forms to be an S-corporation. Call yourself (yourname) Computer Gaming or some such name. Show the car dealer your tax forms for the prior year or income statement for the current year and you'd get a loan for sure.

Once you're in the game, as long as you're responsible your credit opportunities will just grow and grow.

Your parents may (rightly or wrongly) be discouraging you. But if you can prove differently, maybe they'll come around a little bit as you pay for your own major purchases and show responsible use of credit. Good luck to you.