Would you dodge the draft...

[Topflight]

or fight for your country

[Neil Stevens]

I would not submit to an unconstitutional law.

[Bez]

It would depend on the conflict.

[Victor]

depends on the war.

no way i go to iraq tho.

in retrospect, the only war US war I would have gone to is the War of Independence and WWII.

[Topflight]

How long do you have to sit in jail, just until the war is over?

[W00lygimp]

up to 25 years or a 500,000 dollar fine.

[The Dude]

I would dodge the draft if I felt that the war were unjustifiable. If it were justifiable, I would not dodge. In fact, I might volunteer, depending on the urgency and scope of the conflict.

[Topflight]

Jimminy Cricket! So you basically give up your life. I guess that means you are forced to gamble on the front lines.

Does anyone know what the avg is? Do people actually get all 25 years, or do they get something around 5?

Also, I am 24. I have a college degree and am at least slightly above avg intelligence. If I were ever drafted somehow, would they find something more important for me to do than hunker down with a rifle? Or would I just go to boot camp and be pushed out onto the field?

[Victor]

No worries anyway. President Bush has promised that there will be no draft. Of course, we all know he is a trustworthy, honest man of integrity leading us in the absolutely righteous direction.

[Neil Stevens]

I bet you get your news from ABC, CBS, and the New York Times.

[tolbiny]

My bet is NPR

[BonJoviJones]

If you would dodge a draft, I think the only thing to do is leave after a draft is announced but before the draft has started.

Staying just to see if you get lucky, then leaving if you don't, strikes me as bad form.

[Topflight]

Where would I go? Isn't poker tax free in Canada?

[Victor]

nice...you beat me to it

[mmbt0ne]

Neither, they won't take me with my deafness. I wanted to go to a service academy, but couldn't pass their physical. Talk about a let down for the military legacy. My brother would dodge the hell out of it too, so I guess the armed forces line stops in this generation.

[ThaSaltCracka]

if you are drafted, you go where they need you. If you enlist you get some choice.

If I was drafted I would file a concientious objector thingy or whatever, because I don't think I could kill someone, especially mentally, I know I couldn't handle it.

[nothumb]

I wouldn't have to. I was raised Quaker and clerked the national youth gathering for two years. No way they could make me go.

My grandfather (a Quaker) was a smoke-jumper in WWII out in Montana. Found an honorable way to serve that didn't involve violating his beliefs.

If it was an unjust war, I wouldn't even go into peacetime service.

NT

[Topflight]

smoke jumper?

[Sponger15SB]

dodge it somehow, i'd rather be alive than dead thank you very much.

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
I would dodge the draft if I felt that the war were unjustifiable. If it were justifiable, I would not dodge. In fact, I might volunteer, depending on the urgency and scope of the conflict.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well put, same here.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
smoke jumper?

[/ QUOTE ]
they put out forest fires by parachuting into hard to access areas. They are very common in the NW, especially WA and Montana.

[bugstud]

If there is a draft we're beyond screwed...which means I would already be out of the country

[dr. klopek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would dodge the draft if I felt that the war were unjustifiable. If it were justifiable, I would not dodge. In fact, I might volunteer, depending on the urgency and scope of the conflict.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well put, same here.

[/ QUOTE ]

SC you surprise me. Quick, think of a truly justifiable war. Now think of the odds that the next armed conflict that we become involved in will be just and that our involvement will be righteous. For as long as I've been alive the U.S. has just gone around picking fights. I think I would go the objector route personally.

On a side note, It's hard enough to gain citizenship in Canada. I'm not sure how they'd feel if you went up there and told them; "I'm dodging the draft and I don't have to pay tax up here on what I do for a living." I'm sure they'd just roll out the red carpet.

[Topflight]

Dr. Klopek,

Where can I get a copy of the video that your avatar is from? I saw that a long time ago and laughed my ass of for ten minutes.

[SomethingClever]

I didn't say I thought it was very likely that there would be a war worth fighting for, but I think the very very slim possibility exits.

Basically, I would fight to defend our home turf.

Haven't you seen Starship Troopers? If the bugs bomb Buenos Aires, my ass will be on a spaceship to swat some bugs! Besides, they have those water tanks that can regenerate limbs and bring you back to life and stuff.

[Matt Flynn]

if they try to draft this doctor (and they've talked about a medical draft), i am moving to canada to play internet poker. no way does america belong policing middle east states.

and for the gung ho, don't think i wouldn't fight for a just cause. i even tried to join the navy in 1993. the navy refused for medical reasons. best rejection of my life.

matt

[elwoodblues]

Depends. Just and justified war, I would probably go. Otherwise, I would choose to be imprisoned --- no fleeing to canada.

[astroglide]

and your pride would keep you company? i seriously don't get the idea of refusing to serve and essentially volunteering to go to jail. if the whole situation is unjust you're just making yourself a victim of it.

[Homer]

Dodge

[Blarg]

I think this is one of those questions that people pretty often come up with an answer that people want to hear or that makes them feel good about themselves when they're at a safe distance from the situation, but then when the decision becomes a real one, their answers will probably change a lot.

Everyone's perfect -- on paper. But my feeling is, when you really have to decide if you're up for crawling through booby-trapped ratholes or running into machine gun fire in a war that seems either senseless or unjust or both, it's easy to become less perfect, smarter, more cowardly, whatever you want to call it. And the other thing is -- even the most "just" war, if there is such a thing, asks people to die horrible deaths routinely. So no matter what kind of war it is and what a person says, you have to really put him in the situation to have any idea how he'll react.

Works both ways. A lot of people who say they'll never serve wind up serving, too. 25 years in prison and having to put up with the disgust and anger of an entire society for the rest of your life, including that of your own parents, can seem a bad choice compared to three years in a war and coming out with honors, or at least not hated and despised by your whole country.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
i seriously don't get the idea of refusing to serve and essentially volunteering to go to jail. if the whole situation is unjust you're just making yourself a victim of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you can't get the law declared unconstitutional without having someone convicted of it. I would be VERY willing to be that person if it meant declaring the draft unconstitutional.

[thirddan]

just google "star wars kid" and you will probably find 50 different movies people have made...

[Topflight]

I know everyone has already seen this a billion times. But just in case you need to laugh at him again:

http://www.screamingpickle.com/members/StarWarsKid/

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I know everyone has already seen this a billion times. But just in case you need to laugh at him again:

http://www.screamingpickle.com/members/StarWarsKid/

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not funny, that's pathetic. I can't believe that has 11 million downloads. That kid probably has prozac for blood right about now.

[The_Tracker]

[ QUOTE ]
I know everyone has already seen this a billion times. But just in case you need to laugh at him again:

http://www.screamingpickle.com/members/StarWarsKid/

[/ QUOTE ]

I must be out of touch. I have never seen that.

I laughed until I cried. Bravo! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Senor Choppy]

WW II, definitely. Various conflicts afterwards that mostly involved the killing of small, brown people for our own self-interest, no.

[Michael Davis]

I would dodge the draft and would not return to "my" country if I felt that what I was being drafted to do was immoral.

-Michael

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Quick, think of a truly justifiable war.

[/ QUOTE ]
To repel blantantly wrongful invasions of our homeland, or of another country's (WWII comes to mind). To prevent genocide. To stop inhumane acts by a government on its own people.

To use an historic example, let's say I knew how to fly fighter planes during WWII. It's possible I would have volunteered to fly for the British fleet before the US got involved in the war. Had I not, I might have been among those who volunteered for the U.S. military before they were drafted. Had I not done that, I certainly would not have made any effort to dodge the draft.

That is not to say that I support every U.S. effort during WWII (the fire-bombing of Tokyo was absalutely atrocious), but the effort was not only just, but necessary. It was not only right for the U.S. to be involved, it would have been wrong for the U.S. to not.

[dr. klopek]

Ah, I'm glad someone brings up WWII. When Hitler marched his armies into the countries surrounding Germany and began his systematic takeover of half of the globe, Our allies declared war. After a three or four year war that cost the lives of millions of innocent civilians and soldiers, and countless brutal atrocities, America's stance was still "let Europe handle Europe's business." Only after America was attacked did we decide to enter this "ideological" conflict against the forces of "evil." (In quotes because apparently evil is defined as attacking America, not ethnic cleansing). Hitler was a terrible, vile human, and it was right and just to stop him, so why didn't we do it as soon as we knew what was going on? I simply don't believe that WWII, Vietnam, Korea, Desert Storm, or the current war were fought for anything but mercenary purposes. If we were so interested in preventing acts of inhumanity, we probably wouldn't support Israel. We would've been in Iraq long ago. We certainly wouldn't go around giving everybody guns. I would dodge the draft because I can't foresee any reason that we should be invading other countries that pose us little to no threat under false pretense, then requiring our citizens to fight in this conflict, and all but ostracizing ourselves from the world community by picking a war. It's just not very high on my list of things to die for.

[The Dude]

Are you asking me what I think the American leaders' motivation was for entering WWII, or what my motivation would have been for volunteering? The would not have necessarily been the same thing. Hence the possibility of me volunteering before the U.S. became involved. The U.S. should have involved ourselves sooner. No doubt about it.

As for the 'let Europe hand Europe's business' thought, I hate that mentality. Mankind is everyone, not just Americans. An Iraqi life is no less valuable than an American or a French or a Israeli. I do believe we have a responsibility to look out for our fellow man.

As per the current conficts we are in, and those future that would necessitate a draft - I'm sure that there are many people who would be philosophically opposed to the cause. And I would expect them to dodge the draft, as I said I would in my original post.

[Neil Stevens]

[ QUOTE ]
As for the 'let Europe hand Europe's business' thought, I hate that mentality. Mankind is everyone, not just Americans. An Iraqi life is no less valuable than an American or a French or a Israeli. I do believe we have a responsibility to look out for our fellow man.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a tricky position. Should one have no more loyalty to one's neighbors than to people halfway around the world?

[The Dude]

Friendship begets loyalty. But our responsibility is to all of mankind.

[Toro]

In 1971 during the Vietnam "conflict", the government didn't even have the balls to call it a War then, I probably would have and in a practical sense did.

I, like our current President, through some family connections, joined the Army National Guard when my student deferrment was about to end because of graduation.

Of course, that won't work in 2004, as the Guard are the first to be called.

[chabibi]

i grew up in israel where everyone is conscripted i did my time on the lines because doesnt matter how crappy it is you cant run off and let someone else risk their life for your protection there is also the honor thing it like soldiers that used to hide behind the lines in ambushes no one respects them luckily in israel if you dont serve then no one will hire you for a job

[ilya]

It would depend on the war. I would dodge an Iraq draft. Of all the myriad wars that the US has been in, I would only have been willing to fight in WWII. Don't know if I would have been brave enough though, probably I at least would have tried to get assigned away from the front lines.

[Peca277]

I'm a little bit surprised that so few people would have volunteered for the Revolutionary, Civil, or WWI. I see no greater sacrifice than those who volunteered to fight family and friends to preserve the Union. Of course I am a yankee, so those who see it as the "War of Northern Aggression" might not agree.

Depending on the conflict, I would either volunteer to serve if I thought it a worthy cause, or serve if drafted otherwise. It's hard to imagine another war with the broad backing that WWII had though. Not quite as glorious to serve nowadays.

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a little bit surprised that so few people would have volunteered for the Revolutionary, Civil, or WWI. I see no greater sacrifice than those who volunteered to fight family and friends to preserve the Union. Of course I am a yankee, so those who see it as the "War of Northern Aggression" might not agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, maybe the Civil War on the Union side. I don't care about preserving the Union, but I would have fought if I thought it would help end slavery. But the Revolutionary war and WWI definitely don't do it for me, worthy-cause-wise. Matter of fact, I sort of wish Austria-Hungary had prevailed. Not that I really care. I just really love Vienna.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Friendship begets loyalty

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it does. How loyal is Saudi Arabia, really?

Common interests beget loyalty. In other words, expedience and necessity do. And then, things change and life goes on. Countries and people don't exist only in the past; they also have to deal with the present. So alliances and feelings change. With enough time, so do history books.

How many millions of people America freed from Hitler now look at America and think, "What have you done for me lately?" Which is only human, really. We've made many mistakes since then, have pulled fewer of their butts out of the fire, and our interests naturally diverge as time goes by and power shifts around, until maybe the next crisis brings us together for a while.

If our responsibility is to all mankind -- do you let everyone eat out of your refrigerator? There comes a time when you have to weigh out costs and benefits. There are real and sensible limits to things.

Attempting to be the world's policeman may or may not be admirable, but it's impracticable. We can't solve every problem, and if we tried, it would devastate our economy and population, and our own citizens wouldn't stand for it. It has already had quite an effect on the wealth of the country for a very long time now.

So what we do is fight some wars, not others. Often wrong an stupid ones for the benefit of the wealthy, just like it's always been in every country. I don't think friendship or loyalty often figure into it, and certainly war is only occasionally engaged in either in a responsible way or for responsible reasons.