calling a raise with a small pair

I wanted to get some opinion on playing small pairs in a raised pot. If I limp in with a small pair and a Queen then raises, I will usually fold, unless, of course, I have a read on the player or I have an A or K kicker that is live.


However, my question is how do you normally play small pairs in an multi-way pot? For instance, say you limped in with a pair of pocket 6's, an Ace raises and 3 people call the raise. Assuming both sixes are live, do you call the bet? Usually, I will call and hope to catch a 6 on 4th street. If I don't, however, I will usually fold. My reason for calling the bet is that the implied odds of catching a 6 make the call worthwhile. Is this correct?


What if it is a pair of split sixes instead of in the hole? Obviously, you probably won't get the action that you would normally get if the sixes were in the hole. Does this negate the possibility of implied odds and therefore make a fold a better play?


Finally, what is the minimum number of opponents that you would call the raise with?

All you've to do is to read 7CSFAP, the chapter: "Playing small and medium pairs". If you play lower limits, Roy West's book Could be also helpful. Essentially, you shouldn't even call the bring in with a small pair unless you've the highest or straight flush kicker, or you're the last one to act on the 3rd street. If your kicker is up and is the highest, then your hand may have ante stealing qualities. Ohterwise, small pair no kicker is an automatic fold when higher upcards are waiting in lurk to act behind me.

TRy to examine these examples (200.000 hands simulated):


1) Q-Q-x, 6-6-x, 10-10-x, 2-5-9suited


Q-Q-x wins at the showdown 32,26%

6-6-x wins at the showdown 23,22%

10-10-x 24,63%

2-5-9 suited 19,89%


2) Same example removing the hand of pair of tens:


Q-Q-x: 44,14%

6-6-x: 29,73%

2-5-9suited 26,14%


3) Same example without the small 3 flush cards (adding again the pair of tens):

Q-Q-x : 41,67%

6-6-x : 27,75%

10-10-x: 30,58%


4) Q-Q-x, 6-6-x, 10-10-x, 2-5-9suited, 10-J-Q


Q-Q-x : wins at the showdown 22,25%

6-6-x: 23,79%

10-10-x: 17,23%

2-5-9suited: 19,91%

10-J-Q: 16,83%


5) Adding to the previous example a A-K-J hand :


Q-Q-x: 19,70%

6-6-x: 22,86%

10-10-x: 15,39%

2-5-9suited: 17,98%

10-J-Q: 13,91%

A-K-J: 10,16%


PS: NOte the incredible importance (that we all well know...) that the pair of Queens and the pair of Tens go down in value as one card of those ranks are dead in other boards: now, with your pair of sixes you are favorite to win the hand.


(All starting hands have no two or three flush add values---except the obvious 2-3-9suited)


Hope this helps


Marco

Actually, I think your post can be a little misleading. Take your first example. If you remove 66A, 66k, and 66(straight flush card), your other pair of six hands will go down in value.


Also, you have a hand that against multiple players will tend to lose money on the river. That's because you'll frequently make enough, usually two pair, to pay off.


In addition, the three flush will often fold out early, and he won't be contributing to your equity in the pot. If he's in there, you will be losing equity.


So in general, small pairs don't do very well in multiway pots. Their probability of winning are usually going down faster than the pot is getting bigger. Put another way, while hot and cold simulations often do have value for determining stud strategy, I think they are misleading in this case.

In this case I would only consider calling if I had the straight flush kicker. It depends on the players in the hand.


What limits are we talking here ?

I think (without having done any real math) that your expectation is negative here. The problem is that your draw is very slim -- only two cards -- and not a lock in a big field when you do hit it. A-K live kicker or s-flush kicker gives you more outs to hands that can win. Low/mid, non-s-flush kicker gives you only bad outs, to second best hands like low two pair or low straight draw. It's hard to put these low pocket pair, low kicker hands down, but I think they are money losers, at least in the low limit games. Split, they are just flat bad hands.

Of course, everyone knows that small pairs don't do well in multi-way pots. My question is this: if 3 or 4 players have limped in and you have pocket 5s with a meaningless kicker do you also limp in hoping to catch a 5 on 4th street? this is assuming, of course, that both 5s are live.


Taking the above scenario one step furhter, suppose you do limp in and then the last remaining player yet to act raises with an ace. Everyone calls and the action is to you. In my opinion, the implied odds of catching a 5 make this an easy call. If I don't catch a 5 on 4th street, I'll usually fold. However, if everyone catches nonthreatening boards, I may take a card off on 5th street because i will be last to act after the ace bets, meaning I will only have to put in one bet.


I'm just wondering if my approach is right or wrong??


FYI -- I am talking about the 10-20 and 15-30 limits that I normally play at.

note that there is a big difference in how you should play these hands at 10-20 versus 15-30. but in any event you are generally better off folding than you are calling and hoping to catch a third card. you need to have other value in the hand in order to call. i almost never call in this situation at 10-20.


Pat

I agree with Mason that, over time, the hand looses more than it wins. I think the pair would have to be at least nines and all your cards alive to call 75% of the time. I might call with 6's if my position is correct and I suspect a steal, but I better hit on 4th street or I'll fold. Probably best to fold 95% of the time.

Good post Mason.


I find that in many games, I end up playing these types of split pair hands quite often, but the main criterion for me is the ability level of the opponents. I was playing in a game recently with such poor calling stations that also were weak bettors. In this case, I was happy to get in there in a multiway pot with a live hand like split 6's because if I hit the six, I'd get all sorts of action, and these players would give away their hands by checking on 5th street if they didn't have much. Even in heads up this is the case. If I'm playing someone who is not agressive (after maybe a raise with a three flush or 3 high cards) and will give his hand away on 5th, plus will call if I pair my door, then I like to play these pots.


In other games, I don't even limp in with 6's if there are lots of high cards behind me and the game is agressive and on the tight side.


Overall, with weak, nonagressive players, I like to get in there and mix it up. I actually fear this kind of hand against a full-tilter who will never fold and keep betting. He's going to take all 7 cards to beat my 6's and make me pay to see the end. Against those players I'm more willing to wait for the real merchandise.


Just my opinion /images/smile.gif