Input on thread wanted.

[bernie]

5 bets preflop (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1169771&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=31)

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this debate going on. Could it be that going into a flop 5 bets 5/6 ways with QTo is a good thing to do?

Comments greatly appreciated.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
You should loosen up considerably against opponents who are playing garbage for 5 bets preflop as compared with opponents who are going to get involved only with good, speculative, or premium hands. As a first approximation, my guess is that you should play hands that win more than 20% against 5 random opponents. Par is 16.7%.

At this threshold, play A9o, A2s, KTo, K6s, QTo, Q8s, JTo, J8s, T8s, 98s, and pairs down to 66. You may want to be slightly tighter in early position, and slightly looser in late position, but position will not mean much when so much money goes in preflop.


[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone agree?

b

[Victor]

wow....what a messed up thread! good to see you are keeping those guys in line bern.

Seems like you should play normal starting hands except throw out all the low suited connectors. I would say play:

1. any pocket pair
2. Broadway suited cards - AKs-10s, KQs, KJs, QJs
3. AKo, AQo

Not sure if you should throw in Q10s, K10s (or even KJs), J10s or 109s. Normally, one should loosen up in later position so the natural progression in this theory would be that those hands become playable in late position. However, I do not think position has that much importance in this type of game since the preflop action is virtually predetermined and postflop the pot is so big that you are forced to continue with any piece of it.

As for the recommendation you quote below, that is waaaaaaaaaaayyy too loose and will result in someone going broke very fast, especially if their bankroll is less than ginormous.

[M2d]

agree. hell, encourage him. shout it from the mountain tops. put it on the WPT broadcast so it gets maximum exposure.

[Bluffoon]

You have to tighten up considerably. It is not even questionable. You will not be getting enough implied odds on your drawing/spec hands to justify the considerable preflop investment. I dont care if four or five of the players are capping with garbage. Somebody is going to often have a hand preflop and you are not going to have a clue who it is. Be that person.... Big big cards and big pairs only. Then sit back and watch the circus.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if you should throw in Q10s, K10s (or even KJs), J10s or 109s. Normally, one should loosen up in later position so the natural progression in this theory would be that those hands become playable in late position. However, I do not think position has that much importance in this type of game since the preflop action is virtually predetermined and postflop the pot is so big that you are forced to continue with any piece of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd play the suiteds you mentioned. Actually, my cutoff is JTs. Very careful with KTs. Though some i want position to the likely aggression postflop. To me, that's where the position matters rather than preflop since as you say, it's predetermined. However, that doesn't mean you can't plan a little ahead for how the hand may play postflop given the likely aggressors. Along with how the others may play in regards to calling single bets or multiple bets.

Of course, this does up the variance a little bit.

b

[mike l.]

ive been playing this way for years and it's nice to see some crackpot, er, um i mean expert justify, er, um, um, i mean explain it so accurately.

so yeah, everybody else start playing like that too.

[M2d]

Your posts should come with a standard disclaimer: "Warning, this hand was played by an expert. Do not attempt this play at home."

seriously. Tommy, too, I think, but that's for another thread.