How much do u bet TPTK (against flush and straight draw)?

[sofere]

$5.50 9 handed Stars SnG

Blinds 15/30
dealt AcKd UTG+1 Raise to 90
2 callers - MP2, CO

Flop A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

How much would u bet on flop?

[Ogre]

I would bet 1/2 the pot.

[Iconoclastic]

How many chips do you and the other active players have? Make them pay to draw you out basically-give them bad pot odds.

[zephyr]

I'd almost always put atleast a full pot sized bet out. Depending on the opponents I'd often push here (as long as its not a ridiculous overbet), as many opponents will put me on a flush draw and call with a weaker ace.

If the opponents are aggresive I really like a check raise all-in here.

Only my opinion,

Zephyr

[Chaostracize]

I like the 1 1/3 pot bet, giving poor odds, but still seemingly inviting a call from a draw. Just make sure you don't pay it off if it hits, gotta play it sloooow.

[Victor]

absolutely terrible idea to bet 1/2 the pot. Flush/ straight draws are approx 4:1 to hit. By betting half the pot you are giving your first opp 3:1 (your 2nd opp 4:1 if the first guy calls. With implied odds you are making it correct for these guys to draw to a flush or str.

Bet 1-2 times the pot here and give them bad odds to draw. With the A out there I would be inclined to bet 2x the pot since a weaker ace will always call at these levels.

[tigerite]

I disagree that it's a terrible idea - it doesn't commit you too much to the bet, and you can control it.. there's also the chance one might raise you thinking you are on the draw, and then you can ping them back. If another spade comes on the turn then just bin it? It's early stages and you only have TPTK, why risk lots of my stack on that?

[rybones]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree that it's a terrible idea - it doesn't commit you too much to the bet, and you can control it.. there's also the chance one might raise you thinking you are on the draw, and then you can ping them back. If another spade comes on the turn then just bin it? It's early stages and you only have TPTK, why risk lots of my stack on that?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do understand what you are saying here. I Agree that being too committed to TPTK this early is bad. Aside from the draws that are out there, you may also be facing the guy who plays and ace and who hit the flop. That said, you say that the 1/2 pot bets gives you "control"? sorry, but i need to disagree here. you are begging the draws to stay in it and begging the two pair to slow play you. IMO you must raise at least the pot. If you get called and a flush or straigt card hits. check to see if the caller has hit. If a non-scare card hits the turn you need to bet the pot again. while yes it is early, why allow others to drain your money by giving up control?

Alas, these are just my thoughts and comments are always welcome.

Ryan

[sofere]

I think we were all btwn 1300 and 1600 stack size...I think i was about 1450 or so.

[SixgunSam]

Half-pot sized!?!? You should try to win this pot, not give it away. That gives them correct odds to draw, so why would you want to give draws the correct odds to call? If they overpay for their draws, they are making the wrong play and you are making the correct play. I fire a pot sized bet here, maybe a little more.

[sofere]

This is why I can't stand playing against obvious drawing flops out of position. If I bet the pot and a scare card hits, if I check, it leaves me wide open for a bluff, and in the lower buy-ins that seems to happen often. Should I bet, fold if raised? If I check, what kind of bet should I fold to if everyone else folds?...if 1 add'l caller?

[tigerite]

[ QUOTE ]

I do understand what you are saying here. I Agree that being too committed to TPTK this early is bad. Aside from the draws that are out there, you may also be facing the guy who plays and ace and who hit the flop. That said, you say that the 1/2 pot bets gives you "control"? sorry, but i need to disagree here. you are begging the draws to stay in it and begging the two pair to slow play you. IMO you must raise at least the pot. If you get called and a flush or straigt card hits. check to see if the caller has hit. If a non-scare card hits the turn you need to bet the pot again. while yes it is early, why allow others to drain your money by giving up control?

Alas, these are just my thoughts and comments are always welcome.

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

They'll also slow play if you bet the pot (with two pair/a set), so I don't buy that argument. As for inviting the draws - honestly most players will stay in even for a pot sized bet this early in a tournament, they think of it as value to get more chips further on, and isn't much of a hit on their stack if they miss. Many will call a reasonable amount to see the turn. You can't stop that without massively overbetting and that's too risky with TPTK. So the best way is to bet it almost like a limit pot, let them stay in with their draws but make sure they are still paying too much (albeit only slightly, compared to making a huge mistake), then when the turn doesn't hit and you think you're safe from slowplay, that's the time to push a bit more.

Just my slant on it.

[Victor]

...

[Eder]

Pot it and let them draw...if turn looks safe pot it again, if scare card its no biggi to bail here...a push is too scary as a weaker ace here might have caught his kicker etc...
Dont lose your stack is the object here, but I know that at the $5 SnG's people will call with any draw...smaller pair, weaker ace etc at early stages like this.
Hope it worked out for you...