5-10 Stud Taj Hand: 4th Street Decision

I'm playing 5-10 Stud at the Taj while waiting for a Hold Em seat. Very loose passive table, so good I almost passed up my Hold Em seat when called. On this particular hand, I am against a passive player who never seems to raise without a big hand, and who also seems to consider every decision. Happens to be a nice guy, but dem's de breaks. I start with (5,5) K. A deuce brings in to my left, about 5 callers for $2, Ace calls to my right, I call. No kings or 5's are out. On 4th street, the ace to my right (passive player described above) pairs aces on board. I pair Kings on board.


4th Street

(5,5) K K (ME!)


(x,x) A A (Him)


He bets $10. I immediately raise to $20. All fold. Is this correct? I figure to be ahead unless he has a pocket pair, as I think he would have raised on 3rd with aces despite the limpers (doesn't seem to be big on trapping). He calls my raise. On 5th street, he catches a little card, and I catch my dream 5 to boat up. He checks, I bet, he folds. Comments? I think I would make this play again. Also, what would you do if he played back either on 4th, or a later street and I hadn't improved? Thank you...


Jeff

Fold on 4th street. You are probably a 3-1 dog

whether you are facing either trip A's or A's

over. At best your a slight favorite against

only A's. Also the pot is small. The funny thing

is that you are equally bad off against either

the trips or 2 pair.

This is an easy fold on 4th street. You're only hope is that your opponent is "good enough" to fold an unimproved pair of Aces on 5th street.


It should have been obvious that you didn't have trip Kings since you didn't raise on 3rd street.

you have to remember the structure when playing your hand. your hand is marginal at best and there is not much money in the pot at 5-10. given that the pot is also multiway your hand is very weak and is probably a loser in the long run. I think that you need to play very well to make these hands worthwhile, or have a twoflush. if i had your hand in that pot i would fold unless i had a twoflush, or if i thought that i could get it heads up against a pair lower than kings. the fact that an ace is on board really hurts the value of your hand.


also what hand do you think he called with? if he calls with threeflushes then your raise is correct. but if there is a good chance that he has a small pair the obviously your raise is incorrect. you are better off folding. or if, like most 5-10 players he will limp with nothing then also the raise is correct. having played the 5-10 at the taj many times i think your raise is marginally correct.


Pat

Your opponent concluded that you weren't crazy enough to call on 4th without having made trips or aces up.


Could you have made 3 kings? Sure. There no reason to raise them once the pot is multiway like this, unless you have a totally live straight flush kicker. An expert player will often not raise the kings in this spot, esp. if the ace might be trapping a pair of aces...


So, were you crazy on 4th? Unless you thought he could fold early (putting you on trips) I think this is a bad idea. Apparently, he could. I am not a fan of this play in general, but it could be right if he might fold early, and/or he would have raised with a wired pair or aces.


Dan Z.

It's probably best to fold on fourth. You're either a small favorite or a big dog. There are some players I might call, and this guy might be one of them, especially if I can count on him to bet or raise on fifth if he has at least two pair but check if he doesn't. But usually I would fold.


If I do stay in, I'm just calling. The double bet from a pair of aces is likely to thin the field dramatically without my having to raise. The hand isn't worth $20 at this point.


TRLS

is your worst option. It shows too much weakness. Your raise probably convinced your opponent that U had a set on fourth. What else would a "sane" opponent raise with unless he can beat A's up,right?? Certainly NOT K's up, right??

*************************************

U successfully convinced your opponent that your hand was much stronger than it was!

Congratulations on a fine deceptive play!

I,personally,would have folded A's up on 5th after U continued the drive.

A fine play against someone who is capable of folding a fairly strong hand like A's up.

Fortunate for U that he wasn't a "calling station" huh??


Sitting Bull

Ps The accumulation of many small pots over time add up to several BIG winssss!

Keep showing th'm who's the "new boss in town"!

this is a lovely idea. But who do you know that plays under-trips fast on 4th street? This is not the way to represent trips to a thinking player...the best wasy is to call all the way, and bet or raise 6th or even on 7th. Notice that this is very expensive, and thus should not be done often.


Dan Z.

I think you have to be pretty sure that your opponent doesn't have trips or even aces up to stay in here. The implied odds are definitely in your opponent's favor.


If you are going to stay in, you should have called, not raised. If your opponent does have trips or aces up, you're going to have to catch to beat him anyway. But if you're in the lead, anyone you knock out by raising is going to have to catch twice to beat you anyway.

Why do you think it is obvious I don't have trip kings? What would be the point of completing to $5 after all these limpers? I see your point about folding, but I played the player this time. I guess in the future, it would be best to let it go since I only had $2 invested. I think it would have been an easy fold if he played back on a later street however.


Jeff

"You have to remember the structure when playing your hand."


I'm interested in your comments about my 3rd street call, which I thought was a no brainer, but you seem to believe is incorrect. I understand that the small ante mandates tight play, but with a live hand I feel like I have huge odds if I snag a 5 for a set or a king for an open pair. Tell me where my thinking is wrong here, as I value your opinion.


Jeff

Why do you think it is obvious I don't have trip kings?


It is rare that a player will not raise with a pair of Kings. I agree that limping is the correct play with split Kings in this particular hand due to the $2 bring-in. However, very few players will do it.


I guess in the future, it would be best to let it go since I only had $2 invested.


It is irrelevent how much money you have put in the pot. It is only relevent how much total money is in the pot.

I think the 3rd street call is also automatic since your call closes the action.

the call is marginally correct if you think you can outplay your opponents later or can limit the field on a later street. otherwise with an A on board and 6 other players you really have a bad hand. unless you spike a 5 on fourth street most of the time you will be folding on fourth street.


as dynasty points out in this situation your call closes the betting so it is OK. but unless you can manipulate your opponents into giving free cards and can get it heads up later i think you should fold.


pat

inclined to believe that Jeff had a set of K's if he were to raise my open A's than if he were to just call.

U want to put some pressure on your opponent if he has (1) one pair or(2) two pairs.

By just calling , U are telling him that U really can't beat A's up.

So even if he has only one pair of A's,U are giving him correct pot odds by your just calling.

U really don't want him to remain in the game. Hence,U had better try to do something "creative" to knock him out.

If U don't want to play your hand aggressively,U should fold--the pot is small at this point.

U simply can't string along and play passively with your two under-pairs against an over-pair--

unless U don't like money(LOL)!

My advice stands.

Thanks for your input.

Happy pokering.

Sitting Bull

My advice was for playing a thinking opponent. I'll let others discuss playing with non-thinking opponents, as this does not interest me at all.


Dan Z.