Limit SnG tournaments

[theghost]

Anybody play them? Can anyone recommend some good threads/discussion on them from this forum?

I generally play limit (cash) ring games. Recently tested the Limit HE 10+1 waters at party, and after 10 games (small sample size, I know) they are soft.

Piqued my interest, so here I am seeking insights.

(I realize that many of you focus on the NL games, and are probably not interested in limit.)

tg

[Klak]

i have played a few and i cant really figure them out. ive been told that aggression is the key to winning them, but i just cant really seem to maintain my stack. and when the stakes get raised, i find myself totally lost.

heres a link to a guide that you may find useful:
limit sng guide (http://teamfu.freeshell.org/tournament/limit_holdem_sng.html)

[poindexter]

I play exclusively limit games. Limit sngers are scarce so you will not find much info on this site dedicated to the game. I prefer limit sngs because I feel I have more control. In NL any maniac can push you off your best hand with an all in bet. I.e. you raise AKs 3x bb utg and get reraised all in by the cut off with small pocket pair. Here you are forced to fold or put your tournament on the line for a coin flip. In limit you can simply call to see the flop and fold if unimproved. I believe this structure rewards the better poker player and hurts the maniac. Some drawbacks to limit are that limit betting prevents you from protecting your hand resulting in more bad beats, and limit games take slightly longer. I placed in 9 out of the first 9 $10 limit games I played and have never looked back. Today I am playing the 200/15's.

[RcrdBoy]

[ QUOTE ]
Recently tested the Limit HE 10+1 waters at party, and after 10 games (small sample size, I know) they are soft.


[/ QUOTE ]

You aren't kidding. I have played about 300 from $10 to $30 and they are about equal to micro limit ring games.

The $20s are tougher than the $10s, but not by much and the $30s are the same.

Almost all the stuff I read here is about NL and I haven't found much to help for my limit game directly, but it has really helped my overall tournament play. Bubble play, concepts like fold equity, and HU play are all things that I have learned something about and have used parts to adapt to the limit SnGs.

If I had any advice to give I would say play extra tight early and from EP. As you get to levels 3 and 4 start to really ratchet up the aggression.

Also as with any game, get to know your players. Don't bluff the calling stations, but value bet them at every opportunity. Stuff like that.

I would say that if most players just played a tight form of ABC straight forward poker that they could beat the $10s without much problem.

[RcrdBoy]

Hi poindexter,

I was hoping you could answer a few questions about your SnG progress.

1) How long did it take you to move up limits? Did you play 500 of each level (or something like that) or did you just move as you found the games beatable?

2) At what level did you find that the competition level changed the most? I've played a few of the $50s on Party and they are noticeably tougher than the $20s. A lot more aggression, for example.

Thanks.

[lorinda]

I am a poor limit player yet before NL SNGs existed I still managed to make a reasonable profit at LHE SNGs by applying the same principles.

Don't waste chips and attack with selected aggression when the blinds get big.

I'm sure that a good limit player could tweak this rather a lot, but if I can get value out of them, they are definately playable.

Lori

[poindexter]

Hi poindexter,

I was hoping you could answer a few questions about your SnG progress.

1) How long did it take you to move up limits? Did you play 500 of each level (or something like that) or did you just move as you found the games beatable?

I would set personal bankroll milestones as I moved up the sng ladder, all along knowing that if I lost a certain amount I would return to lower level. I averaged around 80-150 games at each level placing near 50% ITM. I would bounce back and forth between levels until I made a run and was able to stay put. For example I tried the 50's when my bankroll hit $2000. Any thing under $2000 I would return to 30's. Moving up to the $200's was hard because the $100 limit sng is almost nonexistent. I had to jump from 50 to 200 after playing only a couple of 100's. The only reason I was able to do it with a cool head was that I was beating the $200 players in the $50 game on a regular basis. What is it about limit sng's? I was a winning .50-1.00 and break-even 1.00-2.00 ring game player 6 months ago before trying sng's. All I can say is sng's have forced me to understand and play good poker. I also think I have pretty good instinct.

2) At what level did you find that the competition level changed the most? I've played a few of the $50s on Party and they are noticeably tougher than the $20s. A lot more aggression, for example.

Your right about the 50's since you will often find $200 players there who cant find a game or who are building their roll back up.

[Soleo]

Hi poindexter,
there probably different ROI figures are considered 'good' for limit SnGs. Could you please post you ROI and number of SnGs for 30s-50s-100s level? Thank you.

[poindexter]

I havent ran the numbers in a long time. I keep records but rarely compile them unless I feel I have a leak in my game. I remember the 30's being my most successful game I was at 50% ITM and I placed In 1st more often then 2nd and 2nd more often then 3rd. I think this was close to 100% ROI but I forget. I started playing the 30's after a 150 game exit form the single table sng's to the $20 3 tablers. I had great sucess there and I feel the 3 tablers was where my game developed the most.

[Soleo]

Quite interesting. Because I was sure that 'good' ROI for limit SnGs must be lower than for NL because of smaller edge good player may gain over bad ones. I would be very interested to see your stats when you finish 1000-2000 of higher level limit tournies if you find it possible to post it.

[poindexter]

1000-2000 will take some time I am guessing around 12-24 months unless the 200/15 player pool increases. Right now in the 200/15 games I am at 43.5% or 30/69 ITM. I realize this is a small sample but I just know I got this one beat just like I did all the other levels. I really can’t comment about NL because I have very little experience there. One thing I can tell you about my limit play is I play people and situations just as much as my cards. I’ve had times where I get almost zero playable hands and end up in the money. I am not sure if I would be able to do that in NL. Sorry about the vague info on my stats I will recompile all my stats tonight if anyone is interested. I did this once and saved it into a temporary internet file to never be recovered again so I have been reluctant to enter in the data again.

[adanthar]

As I was reading this thread, I played a hand in my newest SNG without a slider and suddenly realized I was in a limit 50.

The main event was a guy who cold called 63o, called his 53o on an AJ2 flop and bet the A turn, called down Q high on every street including the river against 2 players...and so on. Despite the horrendous beats he gave out to me and half the others in the tourney, I finished first, because the others were busy calling two big bets in a small pot on turned flush draws when the board paired and calling 3 bets all in with 66 preflop.

So, yeah, I'd say they can be pretty soft.