Marginal Hands

4-8 Stud game


Start with (3c5s)3s, and am the bring in. 6 call, and no one raises. At this point there is no card lower than an 8, and only the nine of spades on the board. On fourth street I catch the 5d, and the player to my immediate right catches the 8c to give him(**)Ac8c. He bets, and I raise in attempt to get it heads up. Original bettor and 1 other guy call. At this points our hands are


(**)10hJc

(**)Ac8c

(3d5s)3s5d


Fifth street,


(**)10hJc2s

(**)Ac8cAd

(3d5s)3s5d4s,


I am ready to fold to the pair of Aces, but he checks(?), and we check around.


6th street


(**)10hJc2s4h

(**)Ac8cAd6h

(3d5s)3s5d4s6s


Now, the pair of Aces bets, and I raise, trying to represent the straight, and hopefully get a bigger two pair to fold, but both call. Pair of aces says that he's checking in the dark, and I bet in the dark figuring that I have a chance of having a real hand (6 straight cards, 6 flush cards, 4 boat cards, and one straight flush card), but I'd really like them to fold if all they have is two pair. Both players fold, and I see that the river was the five of hearts. (Now I'm wishing I didn't bluff the straight)


I just have a couple of questions.


1) Should I have raised on fourth street with two crappy pair?

2) If the pair of aces bet fifth street, would the correct call have been folding? How about if I'm about 80% sure all he has is a pair of aces (plus maybe a 4 flush), but there is a potential overcaller/raiser after me.

On fourth, I would probably raise right away in an attempt to thin the field. If I don't think that this is possible, I might just call and treat it as a full house draw. I would certainly fold to a bet on fifth. I would probably just call on sixth. It seems unlikely that you're going to get the Aces to lay down, so you're probably going to have to hit. You have a zillion outs, all of which are likely good. I don't tend to bet in the dark, and it's kind of a "strong means weak" tell in your case. In this instance, your hand has showdown value, so I'd probably check the end if I missed.

I think I would have played it as you described if it was just me against the Aces, but the third player had (in my opinion) to have 2 pair or trips going into the river, to call someone who raises aces, so I was pretty sure 5s up wasn't going to pull off a win, and i don't see a good shot at winning a showdown if I don't improve. However I'd take the bet on 6th, cause I'm getting a 2 to 1 return on my bet and I have approximately 50% shot of hitting one of my hands, and I like my odds of winning if I can get the other guy, not AA to fold on 6th.

(1) You have to raise on fourth. Your alternative is to fold. You can't call and let all these people get a cheap fifth card.


(2) It can be right to either bet or check on fifth. If you are very sure that you are up against no more than a pair of aces, and if betting has a good chance of getting the other player out, then you should bet, because getting heads up significantly increases your chances of winning, although you will still be only a small favorite over the aces.


However, I think most of the time, if you bet here you are either going to walk into a check-raise or a delayed check-raise on sixth, OR you're not going to succeed in getting heads-up. In regard to the check-raise potential, it's almost inconceivable that someone would check open aces on fifth after betting on fourth unless he or she had another ace in the can and is doing a broken-wing act.


So in my humble opinion, if you're not sure where you stand vis-a-vis the aces, the percentage play is to check. You don't want to put a lot of money in the pot on the expensive streets in stud when you don't know what's going on.


TRLS

been playing a small % of 3rd St. hands.

Since U were playing rather conservatively,your opponent feared that U had a set when U raised 4th. This is the reason he checked 5th Str. He was not able to beat your "set".

Nice play on 4th.


Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

1. if you decide that you can knock most players out thenyou should raise. itis certainly a better play than calling. but given the boards against you, you are a dog to win the hand and are probably not a money favorite. raising is marginally the best play, but you have to be able to fold later on and not get tied on to your mediocre hand.


2. there is no real reason to raise on sixth street. they are not folding and all you do is risk knocking out the third player, which you will regret if you make a five card hand. you should just call on sixth.


Pat