If you can't ante-steal in an overante game?!

Here's the situation: $1-$5 spread limit at Mohegan Sun, 50 cent ante, $1 bring-in. By Sklansky's definition in TOP this is an overante (10 percent of the maximum bet, not the average of future bets).


And here's the problem: because this game is fairly loose, someone nearly always limps even after the bring-in, meaning a late-position ante-steal is almost never possible. Therefore the antes begin to eat you up, especially if you have a run of poor starting cards. The mathematics is not especially promising. If you play maybe 34 hands an hour, that's $17 in antes you have to compenstate for. If you're not getting hands and can't ante-steal, it's going to be a long night.


Opinions/comments/strategy suggestions?

in the tokes,low-card bring-in,and rake, good luck in beating the game!

What's the ante in 5/10 and 10/20?

Sitting Bull

The ante in most $5/10 games is $.50. In all $10/20 stud games I've ever heard of, the ante is $1.


I used to play in a $2/4 stud game with a $.50 ante, $1 bring-in. There is a 10% rake capped at $4.50 with a $1 jackpot drop. I would tip $1 on almost every pot I won. I beat the game for something like $7/hr. High-ante/high-rake stud games are plenty beatable if the players are bad enough.


In the game described above, if they really are coming in with almost anything, then you should really get paid off when you have a hand. If you don't get any tickets, you are going to lose, but overall, you should come out very well if you play reasonably well. Big pairs aren't as valuable in a game in which no one folds (not that you shouldn't play them or even raise with them), but flush draws go up in value considerably and should be played strongly.

High ante games are high variance. It goes with the turf. Bad runs of cards will cost you a lot of money, and good runs will have you swimming in chips. But over the long haul, assuming you play well, you should come out ahead even with a stiff rake and tokes, because the players at this level are usually far and away the worst players in the poker room.


If you can't steal the antes, well don't steal them. That's not where the profit is in these games. The profit comes from the chasers paying you off on your winners, while you are NOT paying them off on their winners.


Keep in mind, if you make a $30 net profit profit on a single pot, that's two hours worth of antes that just got paid for.


TRLS

the infomation. I have NO experience playing in an ante game--I play 1/5 stud with NO ANTE.

That is Y I wanted to know what adjustments I would need to make in a 3/6 .50 ante game.

Do I use the same strategy as the 1/5 no ante game or do I loosen up until the betting limits double??

Just wondering.

Sitting Bull

At least that sounds like what I'm hearing. To sum up:


Tight game, steal the antes to compensate for fewer chances to win pots. Plus it's easier to steal in a tight game anyway. Variance is perhaps a little less.


Loose-passive game, it's harder to steal the antes, but there's less need to, because pots are bigger with all the limpers and poor players contributing. But variance is higher due to the nature of multiway competition. If you have a night where you don't get good multiway cards or the cards you do get don't pan out, you'll have bad results for that particular outing.


OK. I think I get it.

I have played quite a bit of 3/6, 0.50 ante stud, and the

game can be profitable even with a high rake. Big cards

should be played just like 1/5 no ante, raise em up to

limit the field, take your lumps if they don't improve

and you can't intimidate the competition with big board

cards and raising. If your cards go dead by 5th street,

and it becomes obvious you are chasing, cut your losses

and try again later.


Big money makers in this game are drawing hands such as small

pairs and 3 flushes. If your cards are very live, and if you

can limp in, there is long term expectation with these draws.

The key is to get out early and cheap when they don't improve,

which is most of the time. When these hands improve to trips,

small pair with big kicker paired, or made flush, your board is

usually non-threatening and your competition will chase to the

river.


I've never liked small or medium straight draws. There is some

positive expectation with these hands if you can limp in, but they

are hard to play when they improve.


Calling on the river is also an important part of this game. If

your flush draw misses, but turns into 2 medium pair on the river,

it's probably worth a check/call with one or two opponents and no

raise war. I hate tossing out 6 bucks with a crummy hand, but the

pot is big enough and your opponents may have missed also. This

is one aspect where the game differs from 1/5 no ante. In that game,

there were no antes to start, and the bets might have only been $1 or $2

early on, so the pot is too small to call a $5 bet with a crummy hand.


Good Luck