$30/60 stud/8 hand

$30/60 stud/8 game, $5 ante. I think we were about seven-handed at this point. Deuce of spades brings it in for $10. There are a couple of folds and I limp with (KsQs)Ts. The next guy ("G") completes to $30 showing the 5d. Another couple of folds and the bring-in, an unknown player who has burned through most of a rack fairly quickly ("U") re-raises to $60. I call, feeling that it is unlikely that G will re-raise. I have played a lot of high-only stud with G, admittedly in much smaller games ($3/6 and $6/12), and he is a dangerous opponent at that game. He puts in a lot of raises on third street with marginal hands (I think he's trying to apply $30/60 concepts to $3/6 games). I don't remember all of the folded cards, but the 2s was the only card out that had a significant impact on my hand.


On fourth, I pair my king, and the low cards catch what appear to be blanks:


Me: (KsQs)TsKd

G: (X X )5dTh

U: (X X )2sJs


I bet, G raises(!), and U re-raises! I go into a huddle, decide that it's too likely that I'm up against Aces or a set, and muck. Your comments sought.

"U" could conceivably have four spades, among the other possibilities you mentioned.


Plus you're in the clumsy situation of being first to bet on subsequent streets unless someone catches an ace or pairs up, neither of which is something you want to see happen.


So I don't think you're quite good enough to cold-call two raises in a 3-way pot even though there's a strong possibility that nobody has any real hope of low. You would have to be pretty sure that your opponents are screwing around. Having 3 spades gone doesn't help your hand either.


Finally, when all else fails, you can apply Sherman's Law of Absurd Wagering (aka SLAW), namely: when you are showing scary cards and your opponents are betting the hell out of rag boards, it means that you are cabbage salad. Note that this is especially likely to be true when you can't see any aces, or when more than one opponent is doing it. The few times when SLAW doesn't hold up don't begin to make up for all the times you wind up chasing into the expensives streets with what you think is a Really Good Hand only to find out you were dead or nearly so all along.


Lin

With your hand an obvious high, and getting no respect, my take

on your opponents:


G: (A,A) 5D, TH

G: (5,5) 5D, TH how could TH possibly help this hand?


U: (A,A) 2S,JS

U: (2,2) 2S,JS

U: (3S,6S) 2S,JS ie, some combination of baby S's


This is a classic case of many draws to a good hand, 2 big pair,

straight, or a flush, but an expensive situation if a boat raises

you on the river. And of course, player "U" has snatched your

straight flush card.


Aren't good low hands easier on the blood pressure in this game?


Assuming you're playing at the track in Shakopee, they may just be

throwing their chips out there, and maybe G started with some

garbage like (Q,Q) 5, but why take a chance when it's

a good chance you are third best at this point.


BTW, I played in the stud tournament Wed. nite at a table next

to your game, and saw a young guy in seat one pounding down bottled

beer, and another guy working on those super-sized drafts. Are these

guys that good that they can swill beer while playing 30/60 HiLo, or

do they just have deep pockets?

A four-flush did occur to me as a likely hand for the bring-in. I think that when I bet out with KTo on fourth, it's pretty obvious that I have a pair of Kings. When T5o raises, it looks like he's saying "two Kings is no good." When J2s re-raises, that makes it all the more likely that I'm behind. There is the possibility that one or both of them has a three-card low, so I may only be drawing for half the pot. The fact that I have a couple of spades down helps against the possible four-flush. If it were a high-only hand, I would definitely continue, but I think the key to my success thus far in this game has been that I have stayed out of trouble, and this just seemed like trouble. I discussed this hand with a friend who knows this game reasonably well, and he thought I should fold on third street (when it was $50 back to me), but call on fourth.


U had (8s5s)2sJs and caught a flush. I did not see G's hand. The more I think about it, the more I think that he did not have Aces. He would probably have reacted more strongly had he lost with rolled-up trips. Maybe he had something like (Ah2h)5dTh.

If it were a high-only hand, and G had (QQ)5T, he would definitely pop me one time, and he'd probably be right to do so. I haven't played against him enough in this game to know whether he'd try that here. All of the other high-only stud players I've played against tend to overvalue high hands, even in situations where they're likely behind and drawing for half the pot. This is true in G's case, but I can't say to what degree yet.


Low hands are indeed a lot easier to play. I might start mucking Kings for the bring-in. /images/smile.gif


Yeah, people drink in that game and no, they're not that good. They drink at $2/4 and in that little tournament and everywhere else. People go down there to have a good time, and I include myself in this statement (although I'll only indulge if I'm playing much smaller). I would submit that the $1000s that some of those guys blow off in that game mean less to them than the $35 you paid to enter that tournament means to you.


There's a picture of me on my profile page. Feel free to drop by and say, "hi."

** If it were a high-only hand, and G had (QQ)5T, he would definitely pop me one time,

** and he'd probably be right to do so. I haven't played against him enough in this game to

** know whether he'd try that here. All of the other high-only stud players I've played

** against tend to overvalue high hands, even in situations where they're likely behind

** and drawing for half the pot. This is true in G's case, but I can't say to what degree yet.


The 4/8 stud/8 doesn't go that often at CP, and it can consist of all good

players. Sometimes however, high-only players will sit down because the

3/6 or 4/8 stud list is long. I played about a month ago when 3 high-only players

were at the table. These guys were steaming because their T,T and J,J starting

hands were beat by lows turning into str8's and flushes. 30/60 probably has

fewer players seeing 4th street, so high hands have more value, but in the

4/8 game you don't lose much equity by mucking all high hands except trips

or paired aces.


** Low hands are indeed a lot easier to play. I might start mucking Kings for the bring-in.


If the games plays anything like the 4/8, the game often becomes 3 handed by

6th street, and a raising war breaks out on either 6th or 7th. If you started

out with a good low, by sixth street you have usually mucked or are leading

the raising contest. The 4 raise limit at CP will butcher you if you don't

know where you stand with a high hand.


** Yeah, people drink in that game and no, they're not that good. They drink at $2/4 and in

** that little tournament and everywhere else. People go down there to have a good time, and

** I include myself in this statement (although I'll only indulge if I'm playing much smaller).

** I would submit that the $1000s that some of those guys blow off in that game mean less to

** them than the $35 you paid to enter that tournament means to you.


You are right there, one of the 3/6 stud players blows through $300 or $400

a day, doesn't seem to faze him. Inheritance, disability settlement, who

knows. And yes, the $35 is meaningful, I try to win the money in 3/6 before

the tournament, although it doesn't always work that way.


** There's a picture of me on my profile page. Feel free to drop by and say, "hi."


I get out there once or twice a month, (!#!#$ job gets in the way), so I'll

probably stop by sometime.

It's been a long time since I played $4/8 stud/8, but the $30/60 game is, on average, looser than the $4/8 game. There are some guys who play practically every hand in the $30/60 game.


"If the games plays anything like the 4/8, the game often becomes 3 handed by 6th street, and a raising war breaks out on either 6th or 7th. If you started out with a good low, by sixth street you have usually mucked or are leading the raising contest. The 4 raise limit at CP will butcher you if you don't know where you stand with a high hand."


This is basically true of the $30/60 game, except that a raising war can break out at any time, particularly if Andy B has a hand. /images/smile.gif I actually find that there is almost no jamming in the $4/8 game. Guess it depends on who all shows up. Last night I found myself in the uncomfortable position of putting in $240 on the river with a lousy 86 because I was pretty sure I was up against two high hands (one of the high hands also had an 87).

but I´d put the maniacal U on a four-flush or a pair of jacks, and G could have raised with simply a pair of fives, knowing that U will likely reraise and perhaps cause the player with the best hand (i.e. you) to fold. But as I said before, I don´t know much about stud.