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View Full Version : Obligatory "First x SnGs, how am I doing" post


DownLow
10-26-2004, 05:32 PM
Long time lurker, recent poster, yada, yada, yada. I have been playing the Stars 5, 10 and 20 single table SnGs. The 20's are a recent move, I feel I have been doing OK but there are certainly some leaks I need to plug to ensure long-term profitability. Here are my results for each buyin:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
$5.00 Buy in:
Total Tournaments: 16
Finishes:
Place Total % of Total
1 4 25
2 2 12.5
3 1 6.25
4 2 12.5
5 1 6.25
6 0 0
7 2 12.5
8 1 6.25
9 3 18.75
ITM: 43.75%
ROI: 43.18%
</pre><hr />
Ouch! 19% 9th places! I am doing something VERY wrong early but this is just a small sample, let's look at the 10's:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
$10.00 Buy in:
Total Tournaments: 371
Finishes:
Place Total % of Total
1 73 19.68
2 32 8.63
3 44 11.86
4 46 12.4
5 36 9.7
6 41 11.05
7 35 9.43
8 32 8.63
9 32 8.63
ITM: 40.16%
ROI: 20.9%
</pre><hr />

OK, this looks like a big enough sample to get some meaning. The first problem I see is that I am finishing 7-9 26.6% of the time. I am getting involved in big hands early and losing. What are the range of hands that you normally play at this stage? Group 1 only?

6th place is 11% all by itself. I think I am overvaluing my hands and switching gears a little early here. This also may be due to me bleeding chips early, which I'll discuss later.

4th place. The bubble. I seem to go out here more than I should. I think either I am short stacked and end up doing a blind steal push into a stronger hand, or I am the large stack and get too tight and bleed all my chips away to the more aggressive players. What are the range of hands you push with on the short stack? What are the range of hands you call a SS push with on the big stack? What is a good middle stack strat (frequent blind steals, tight play, loose play, ???)?

3rd place I take because I either just slipped by the bubble and end up going out quick or I get too aggressive and end up losing my stack. I don't think this is a bad play, I want to take first and I think 3 handed is certainly the time to make my move if I'm not already the big stack. However, I feel I may not be playing correctly 3 handed, anyone care to share their strategy at this stage?

2nd and 1st. I consider myself a fairly strong heads-up player so I am not surprised to see the 2nd-1st distribution. I am fairly happy with the 1st place finishes.

I think if I can move just a few of the 4ths to 3rds and the 3rds to 2nds I would be much better off (well, obviously!). I think my leak here is my bubble play. I am working on plugging the leaks in my play here, but it can be difficult to apply the theory when you are getting desperate. Also, my bubble periods seem to be growing. I used to get through the bubble fairly fast, either going out or getting into the money within a few orbits. But lately, the bubble has been lasting anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour. I don't know if it is because I have been changing my play to try to survive here or if my opponents play is changing or if it just a random fluctuation but it is getting very frustrating and I fear it may be causing me to tilt slightly when I have been in bubble play for a while.

Now for the 20's:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>

$20.00 Buy in:
Total Tournaments: 22
Finishes:
Place Total % of Total
1 5 22.73
2 2 9.09
3 3 13.64
4 4 18.18
5 0 0
6 1 4.55
7 4 17.39
8 1 4.55
9 3 13.64
ITM: 43.48%
ROI: 31.82%
</pre><hr />
Small sample size (I just started playing 20's this week). My first several games were in the money, but now I seem to be falling into my old habits of going out early. My 7th-9th place is terrible. I am also getting bubbled out more frequently (ach! 2 more 4th places last night that aren't in PT yet!). I may be getting too passive on the bubble due to the higher buyin. Now I am really confused, I can't decide whether I am too passive or aggressive on the bubble, neither seems to be doing me any good.


Now some random PT thoughts. I have a total VP$IP of 34.21. According to what I have read on the forums, this is much too high. I think this is influenced by 2 things. First, I tend to limp quite a few hands in the 10/20 and 20/30 rounds hoping for a big flop. I think this may be part of the reason that so many of my early finishes, I get a flop that is big but not big enough or I make some stupid bluff move early and get called out. Second, I think this stat is influenced by short-handed play, most of my later blind levels have a VP$IP of over 50%. Is this too much even short-handed (my heads up is probably closer to 70%

Another curious stat I have noticed that may be a big leak is AKs. PT shows a loss of .29 BB/hand over 78 occurances. I don't know if this is due to the fact that I push so much with this hand, or that I tend to bet the flop whether or not it hit, but I certainly need to look deeper into this and find out where all my $ is going with this hand.

My PFR% is 14.18. I have not seen too much discussion of this stat on the forum, anyone care to comment on this? Pretty standard, too passive? My total aggression score comes out to 1.21. This seems much more passive than other people who have posted this stat, comments? Too much limping?

All in all I feel I am a decent player but I tend to make rash decisions that lose me money. I know that I have just posted general information but if anything jumps out that looks way off, please let me know. I know I have a ton of leaks in my game but it can be hard to identify them and even harder to apply the solution to actual gameplay.

All constructive critisism gladly accepted. Thanks to anyone who would care to comment.

wjmooner
10-26-2004, 05:41 PM
Two things that strike me about your stats. Obviously your stats are fine and you are a winning player. That is great.

1. As you recognize you are going out 7-9th quite a bit. In my experience this happens when people overvalue their top pair top kicker hands. If you run up against a fish and double up you are in good shape, but frequently you are in trouble.

I would look over the hands where you go out 7-9th and see why you got knocked out. Most of my early outs are great hands that get killed by huge monsters: AA v. KK or maybe QQ preflop, set over set, top two pair against a set. If you are consistently putting your money all-in with AJ on a jack high flop that could be a leak.

2. Pokertracker stats get very skewed in SnGs. Try filtering your stats to see what your VPip% is for the first three levels. That should give you a good idea of what your VPip is at a full table.

Good luck.
Chris

DownLow
10-26-2004, 05:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Try filtering your stats to see what your VPip% is for the first three levels.


[/ QUOTE ]

Gah! Terrible:
Players: 8 to 9 Blinds: &lt;= 50/100
VP$IP: 30.48
PF Raise: 7.97%
Cold-call: .72%

I think this is definately a leak in my game, I need to be tighter early. I am going to make a concerted effort tonight to play only my premium hand early. I don't care if everyone else is limping, they can't make me do it!

I think your observation about TPTK is spot-on, I do find myself making plays just like you described early in the game. I really need to start watching myself on these hands. This may also be part of my problem with AKs. If I hit that A or K I seem to play like I just flopped a boat. Thanks for the reply, I feel like I am getting better already /images/graemlins/wink.gif

rachelwxm
10-27-2004, 10:50 AM
Congrats!
One thing would be more revealing is do you see picking up in your 10+1 games rolling 100 for example? That would make you more confident in your 20+2 result. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
371 is a large sample, I think you do improve over time right?

The Yugoslavian
10-27-2004, 01:59 PM
Isn't your ROI for 10+1 SNGs more like 35%?

Overall I agree with what everyone else has said. I'm not sure you have as many leaks as you may think for bubble play. Definitely stay focused and be patient. The bubble can last 5 seconds or 50 minutes -- that's just the way poker is!

Anyway, good results, keep it up!
/images/graemlins/grin.gif