3/7 hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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joker122

10-26-2004, 01:53 AM

I've got 7 hands I want to post but I'm going to hold off on the last 4 for a little. I'd appreciate comments on these though.

Hand 1:

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, 2 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG folds, Button calls.

Flop: (8 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Hand 2:

CO is very LAG.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, MP raises, CO calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP folds, CO calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, CO calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, CO calls.

River: (13.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB

Hand 3:

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, Button raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, Button calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Button calls, Hero folds.

River: (9.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

J.R.

10-26-2004, 02:06 AM

I'd bet the turn in Hand 3. Hand 1 seems fine against most opponents, I like the turn raise river check in hand 2, and am inclined to think I would not have bet the river even had it been a nonclub blank (although I am not really sure there are many blanks the more I think about it).

joker122

10-26-2004, 02:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
and am inclined to think I would not have bet the river even had it been a nonclub blank (although I am not really sure there are many blanks the more I think about it).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I wasn't planning on betting any river other than a non club jack or a ten.

You like a turn bet in hand 3?

Scotch78

10-26-2004, 03:52 AM

I'm just wondering about the turn raise in hand 2. Since you played it and J.R. liked it, I'll assume there's something good about it, but what is it that I'm missing?

Scott

Spook

10-26-2004, 09:02 AM

you are cold calling with JTs? is this a recommended play?

DrGutshot

10-26-2004, 09:27 AM

Please explain your reasoning in hand 2...
Are you raising the turn for value? Also - I assume you are folding to a 3bet? You lose the same (one bet on the turn and one on the river) by just calling down, and you get to see a showdown if he's bluffing. If the reasoning is to charge him on a draw...what draw do you put him on, and also - he's not going to fold his draw, so why not wait until the river to bet/raise him when a blank falls, or check behind when a draw hits?

Thoroughly confused,
-DrG

J.R.

10-26-2004, 12:54 PM

You like a turn bet in hand 3?

Its not so much what I like as much as it is I hate pumping the flop and check folding to unkowns. If you felt good enough to 3-bet the flop, the turn check-fold feels weak, although the BB's flop coldcall of two more is telling and the ace of the flush suit isn't a great turn card for you. If you a have a read they are reasonable, ok, but too many guys get ape too often with nothing in this game

J.R.

10-26-2004, 12:54 PM

J.R.

10-26-2004, 01:08 PM

I think over-coldcalling is fine against the right opponents, even more so with the button. There are guys who raise more hands than I VPIP with (although I am tight, probably still too tight).

For example, consider this, which isn't unreasonable for the open raiser's hands (the coldcaller may be abit to tight) and you still have the dead money/random hands in the blinds.

Code:<hr /><pre>

Hand 1: 34.6083 % [ 00.33 00.02 ] { AA-66, AKs-A6s, KQs-K8s, QJs-Q9s, JTs-J9s, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-A9o, KQo-KTo, QJo }
Hand 2: 33.2171 % [ 00.31 00.02 ] { TT-22, AJs-A7s, KQs-K8s, QJs-Q8s, JTs-J8s, T9s-T7s, 98s-97s, 87s-86s, 76s-75s, 65s, AJo-A9o, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo-J9o, T9o-T8o }
Hand 3: 32.1745 % [ 00.30 00.02 ] { JTs }

</pre><hr />

J.R.

10-26-2004, 01:15 PM

If yu think you are ahead on the turn, why not maximize your edge and get the bets in now. The lead turn bet on the turn flush card may be a single club, so why let him draw cheaply. UTG did call 2 on the flop, so he may have us beat, but if we plan on calling down we are willign to put in 2 bets, so why nto put them in now and fully cpaitalize on any edge we may have. The CO's turn call isn't threatening, and you are vulnerable to lots of cards (overcrads, clubs, straight cards, etc), and we still have top pair. If its worth continuing, why not raise. Its a free showdown paly, and we can fold to a 3-bet fairly easily. An unimproived club/missed staright draw won't call on the river. Its also nice toi be aggressive when its close for image reaosns.

turnipmonster

10-26-2004, 01:19 PM

is hand #1 standard? I fold on the turn a fair amount here against non-insane opponents (few and far between in the 5/10).

--turnipmonster

joker122

10-26-2004, 01:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Please explain your reasoning in hand 2...
Are you raising the turn for value? Also - I assume you are folding to a 3bet? You lose the same (one bet on the turn and one on the river) by just calling down, and you get to see a showdown if he's bluffing. If the reasoning is to charge him on a draw...what draw do you put him on, and also - he's not going to fold his draw, so why not wait until the river to bet/raise him when a blank falls, or check behind when a draw hits?

[/ QUOTE ]

You pretty much answered your own question. The sudden bet from UTG often indicates a picked up draw. This can be a single big club, a pair and a club, a pair and a gutshot, a gutshot, etc. This game is so aggressive that his range of hands is exceptionally wide, and for this reason I'm likely still ahead. The pot was big, I had top pair, so the raise was to protect my hand.

You say he's not folding a draw even if I raise. You're right, he's definitely not. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't raise. My purpose in raising was to worsen his odds to draw...simple.

The line often gets blurred between raising for value and raising for hand protection. This is no exception, as it's a little bit of both.

edit - oh, and like J.R. said, I'd feel ok folding to a 3bet with top pair, weak kicker.

joker122

10-26-2004, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you are cold calling with JTs? is this a recommended play?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny because a few days ago B Dids made almost an identical call and I said it was bad. This is alot different though: everyone who could have had already voluntarily entered the pot, so I was guarenteed multi way action which is what I want with this hand. The CO was also very lag, and my other opponents were pretty loose, so my implied odds are tremendous. I have the button. I think preflop is ok.

joker122

10-26-2004, 01:29 PM

Yup.

joker122

10-26-2004, 01:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
is hand #1 standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I think I should have folded too.

joker122

10-26-2004, 08:22 PM

Hand 1: villian had AJo and HHWG.

Hand 2:
UTG has 6h 6d (three of a kind, sixes).
CO has 8s Jc (straight, queen high).
Hero has Js Ts (one pair, tens).
Outcome: CO wins 13.75 BB. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

gonores

10-26-2004, 10:04 PM

Hand 1: I'm a fan of folding on the turn
Hand 2: I like the way you played it the whole way through, although against 50% of my opponents, I'd consider folding on the turn.
Hand 3: I think the hand plays out easier out of position if you checkraise the flop.

joker122

10-26-2004, 10:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 3: I think the hand plays out easier out of position if you checkraise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would be my default at 5/10 and lower, but in this game I've noticed that players will 3 bet with overcards routinely and that puts me in a bad spot. I decided to just push back here.