I have been thinking about the long waits for a seat and what to do.

[steamboatin]

I usually bring a poker book to read. I have heard that video poker came be +EV if played correctly. Does anyone know if it is and how?

[haakee]

It can be if you find the right machines. Why not blackjack?

[Luv2DriveTT]

Actually, all kidding aside, video poker is (barely) beatable. Its the only "slot" machine that is. Cardoza Publishing has a bunch of books on this, and there were some good ones at the Gambler's General Store.

TT

[steamboatin]

Which book would you recomend?

[daveymck]

check out www.wizardofodds.com (http://www.wizardofodds.com) for advice and the odds of all the casino games.

I understand that blackjack is better than Video Poker from a house edge point of view and also Video Poker you need a big bankroll as it is very swingy.

[PokerPaul]

All i can say is those games are not really beatable. BJ maybe if you're a great card counter, and can make huge bets when deck is in your favour.

Else why don't you just read the free poker magazines they have and brush up on your game. Eat a snack, strike up a chat with another player waiting also, call the wife/girlfriend/bookie/etc, bring a book to read.....

just don't get sucked into losing chunks of BR while you wait.

[bdk3clash]

It's not a strategy book, but check out Million Dollar Video Poker (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0929712110/qid=1098798349/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-9805892-0653515?v=glance&s=books) by Bob Dancer. It's pretty much an autobiography of how he mande $1 million in 5 or 6 years playing video poker, mainly through sheer force of will.

Ed Miller has a few interesting posts about Dancer in this thread. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=holdem&Number=845195&Forum =All_Forums&Words=%2Bbob%20%2Bdancer&Searchpage=0& Limit=25&Main=842547&Search=true&where=bodysub&Nam e=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&ol dertype=&bodyprev=#Post845195)

Video Poker: Optimum Play (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1886070113/ref=pd_sim_books_1/104-9805892-0653515?v=glance&s=books) by Dan Paymar seems to be well regarded, but I really wouldn't know. I've only played video poker a few times--it was fun, but boy do those $20 bills disappear fast.

[Grisgra]

From what I recall reading, video poker is only +EV over the reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally long run, i.e., you need to hit a royal flush and get the big payout. Unless you're planning on putting in hundreds of hours, it may be +EV in the long run but it's 99% a loser in the short run.

And it would seem to me possible that once casinos figured out that it was +EV due to the payout structure, they'd change it . . .

[bdk3clash]

Not all forms of video poker are +EV. You have to find the right machines, and you have to play perfectly. Most people do neither.

[tek]

Play mini-bacarat and bet the opposite of the Chinese players /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Grisgra]

True, true, but in addition, even if you play perfectly and even if you find a +EV machine, you still have to play for a few hundred hours for it to be +EV in any sort of meaningful sense.

[bdk3clash]

It's likely you'd have to play a long time to show a profit, but +EV is +EV.

[soah]

The payoff for a royal flush is so huge that your optimum strategy is to try for one as much as possible. In the short run this means that you will almost always lose money since you spend so much of your time drawing at a longshot. You will end up with mostly losing sessions but an occasional big win to cancel them out. Your total advantage is generally less than 1% and the standard deviation is huge. +EV isn't +EV anymore if you go broke before you hit your Royal.

It's my understanding that the guy who wrote the book on winning $1 million was actually severely underbankrolled and had well over a 50% risk of ruin. He got lucky and hit some Royals before he went broke.

You could flip burgers and get the same hourly rate as an expert video poker player, but without the risk of losing many thousands of dollars.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
+EV isn't +EV anymore if you go broke before you hit your Royal.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bankroll is bankroll, standard deviation is standard deviation, and risk of ruin is risk of ruin. Good points, though.

[Joe_d72]

If you play the right machine and play correct every time you play you can make about 12.00 hour playing Video poker.

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually bring a poker book to read. I have heard that video poker came be +EV if played correctly. Does anyone know if it is and how?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm guessing there are no +EV machines at the casinos in and around Indiana.

In all of AC (where I play), I know of no +EV machines. The best ones are 9/6 JOB, which have a 99.6% return.

[Toonces]

I was a VP pro that has more recently turned their attention to poker. Getting into VP in 2004 is being a bit behind the curve, in that most of the lucrative situations have gone away.

For the most part, your hourly win rate will be higher at live poker than at VP, without the hassle of recieving W2-G forms for every royal flush. However, the biggest benefit of the VP play is to recieve a lot more love in the form of comps than live poker players can dream of.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
If you play the right machine and play correct every time you play you can make about 12.00 hour playing Video poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wowie $12 an hour. No way I could make that playing poker.

[steamboatin]

Can I ask you for some VP pointers? Which machines are best and why? How did you learn the strategy?

I have been considering playing Video Poker while I wait for a seat. My thoughts at the moment are that it is more +EV to read and study my poker books but I would like as many opinions as possible.

[Toonces]

Honestly, if you're playing in southern IN (or even Northern IN for that matter), there is little positive VP to bother with. the best you could look to do is break even or win a little after getting cash-back coupons in the mail. But you will get free hotel offers and free slot tournaments and things of that sort. Trump and Majestic Star in Chicago have better vp, but it's still not actually 100% on its own without promotions. In Vegas, there's more opportunity, but the only Vegas casino that I would recommend playing VP while waiting for a poker seat is at the Palms. Most of the other poker hotbeds don't have a lot of good VP.

To learn VP pointers, the best "free" way to learn is to join the "vpfree" Yahoo group seen here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/) . They have databases of the good machines all over the country and free strategies. Beyond that, you'll have to shell out money. Frugal Video Poker is probably the best software package to practice on, while the Bob Dancer series of books is probably the best to read once you learn what particular form of VP you intend to learn, based on what's available in your city.

[charlie_t_jr]

[ QUOTE ]
To learn VP pointers, the best "free" way to learn is to join the "vpfree" Yahoo group seen here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/) .

[/ QUOTE ]

You could also try www.gamemasteronline.com (http://www.gamemasteronline.com) He has quite detailed discussion of VP. Also, you might want to checkout his BJ shcool, which is very good if your interested in taking the BJ route to advantage play.