50 100 stud high hand

I am the bring with 2 c and have pocket queens in the hole. Before action gets back to me 8 raises and king reraises and it costs me 85 to call and I decide to fold.


Any comments are welcomed and I will post results and analysis later. Am i giving up too much in this spot by folding?


BIGSTU

My local room doesn't get high-only stud games bigger than $6/12 going very often, and I've never played this game above $15/30, so take this for what it's worth. I would at least consider bringing it in for the full $50, but I almost always bring it in for the minimum to give me the option of re-raising if the situation warrants it. I think that in order to consider getting involved, your Qs and 2s have to be completely live. Also, do you have the Qc? Having brought it in for the minimum, you might consider re-raising in order to knock out the 8 and get it heads-up with dead money ($10 ante?) and position. You will act last on all rounds unless you improve or catch an Ace, which might be enough to scare the guy off of an unimproved pair of Kings. You'll also likely have the option of taking a free card at some point during the hand. I would probably lean towards mucking, but most of the folks that I play with have what they are representing when they make it two bets to go. I'd be more inclined to play with a better kicker like a suited Jack. I don't think you gave up that much either way.

Depends on the player holding the king but i think you do, especially since your pair is in the pocket. Even at 15-30 you are probably giving up too much here. There are many hands the king could have here that you beat and that he would raise with. He could even have a hand like TTK with a twoflush or a broadway draw. Unless he is tight, and from what i know about 50-100 there arent too many tight players, you are probably giving up too much by folding.


Pat

Hi Beemer,

if u put KIng holder with a pair of kings you are done with your pair (maybe 5 to 1 dog). Giving up too much? I started to fold these hands and I'm looking at a good profit.


However, as other posters stated, the acknowledge of your opponents is the key factor (you are almost sure he might hold KIngs? FOLD FOLD FOLD, look at reasons to NOT play----don't think about 3 flush cards with overcards, etc, etc)


Marco

I don't think a fold here is correct at all. At these limits players tend to be so aggressive you can't accurately put them on any particular hand a good deal of the time. Compare this to a $1-$5 game where if somebody raises with a king, usually he has a better chance of having them than not.

Here the player with the king could have anything. Remember when there's that much starting money in the pot players have to be much more aggressive and try to push some average hands that they normally wouldn't in a game with a lower ante structure, like $10-20. The player with the king could have a small or medium pocket pair (he would almost definitely raise with it whether it was higher or lower than eights, to try to represent kings) he could also very well have a high three strait or just three high cards trying to get heads-up with a probable pair of eights. The point is that if I was offered an even money bet on whether he had the kings or not, I would take the not at this limit the majority of the time.

Also, even if he does have the kings you are not a 5-1 underdog. You are only a 2-1 underdog if you go heads-up against a higher pair on 3rd. street. And in this situation it's not so bad due to the high ante structure. I think your play here is to reraise and try to get heads-up with the king. If he does have kings you have made only a small mistake by playing, if he dosen't you have made a huge one.


Mike

It's interesting that this hand isn't all that differt than Dynasty's hand above, he has pocket jacks and raises. And I guess I have the same lame advice I gave Dynasty, call. I don't think the limits come into play in either hand, do you?

Of course the limits come into play. The ante at $10/20 is $1, and the ante at $50/100 is $10 (correct me if I'm wrong), so there is twice as much money in the pot to start, relative to the size of the game, in the $50/100. This begets some aggressive raising with relatively flimsy values in the $50/100. If this situation cropped up in a $10/20 game, I would throw the two Queens away without hesitation against most opponents. In this situation, I don't know what I'd do. Good thing that I don't have access to anything above $30/60. /images/smile.gif

2-1 dog heads-up,U are a long run "money favorite" in this spot. There is enough "dead money" in the pot to continue--assuming your opponent does not improve.

Many times U will obtain two underpairs while your opponent remains with one overpair.

*********************************************

Recently I had a decent 3-str. on 3rd and a player with an "A" showing ,raised--and this player usually plays tightly.

Another player who also usually plays tightly raised the "A" showing and I folded my 3-str.

The player with the "A" did not even have one pair on 7th and the other player had one pair of J's--AND THIS WAS NOT ANY HIGH LIMIT GAME--it was in a 1-5 NO ANTE stud game(LOL)

HMMMM

What can I say*****

So much for using too much logic***

Happy pokering***

Sitting Bull

n/m

You don't want to be up against Kings. The eights raise may have been to knock out the King, but the Kings reraise makes it very likely you are up against a strong hand. Facing two bets, you should fold.

THANK YOU FOR ALL THE RESPONSES WHICH ALL MADE SENSE TO ME. I UNDERSTAND BOTH SIDES BUT ON THIS PARTICULAR HAND U HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THERE IS A RAISE AND A RERAISE AND NOT JUST THE ONE STEALING RAISE. THAT MAKES MY HAND AN UNDERDOG MOST OF THE TIME AND THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF SITUATION THAT RAY ZEE TALKS ABOUT IN 7 CSFAP WHERE U PLAY AGAINST THE BIGGER PAIR WITH NO KICKER, IT IS VERY COSTLY. IT WILL COST YOU 500 TO FIND OUT AND THEN YOU ARE REALLY GOING TO REGRET IT IF THE PLAYER REALLY HAD THE KINGS. YOU PLAY ONE HAND AT THE TIME AT THAT HOSE GAME AND YOU DO NOT WANT TO GET STUCK , LET OTHERS GO ON TILT. I KNOW THAT THERE WILL BE BETTER TIME FOR ME TO PUT THE MONEY ON THE TABLE WHEN I WILL BE A CLEAR FAVORITE


BIGSTU

PS.


IN THIS PARTICULAR HAND RAISER HAND WAS 8 S, 10 S, Q S AND THE OTHER GUY TRULY HAD KINGS AND TOOK THE POT WITH JUST ONE PAIR

If the guy with the 8 in the door had split 8s and the other guy had a King-high three-flush, how would you feel about you fold then? I don't play this high, but it seems to me that high-limit stud players are a lot less likely to have what they're representing than most. If your opponent isn't too tricky, your fold is correct.

nm

Obviously you played the hand right. Your opponent had the real kings and you would have been a dog all the way. I may be stubborn, however, but I'm still going to argue that your fold was incorrect in most cases at this limit where the ante in bring-in are proportionally higher. I agree that if you are up against a fairly tight and predictable player your fold is probably correct. The problem is at 50-100 not too many of your opponents are going to have these traits.

If you can get a hand like this heads-up, although you will still be a dog if your opponent has kings, there is enough dead money in the pot that makes this hand worth playing. And if he dosen't have the kings (like I said before at this limit 3-high cards isn't that far fetched of a hand for this player, along with a small or medium pocket pair) then you are in great shape.

The main thing to keep in mind that alot of you aren't understanding is this isn't a 10-20 hand with a $1 ante and a $3 bring-in. This is 50-100 and the players (rightly so according to the structure of the game) play more hands and play more aggressively. At 10-20 against most opponents the queens are a fold, but at this limit you'll quickly find you can't always wait for the nuts. The ante and bring-in will eat you alive. At 10-20 tight play will just about always get the money, this is not so at this limit where you are somewhat forced to enter more pots and play more hands.


Mike

The 8 holder entered that pot


Marco

Thats why you reraise and try to play heads-up.