Help getting destroyed at .25/.50

[Radio]

Iv been trying to follow the advice in internet texas holdem by hilger. Iv been playing .25/.50 but i seem to be getting destroyed because following the starting hand charts is makeing me so tight. These games are full of maniacs who bet on almost anything and they seem to win all the time where as im being tight and just slowly looseing my bankroll. I mean these guys are play 87 unsuited ect and winning. 63% of players seeing the flop ! Where as im just getting delt crap hands and when a good hand comes up it dont come through on the flop! Their telling me i need to loosen up but then this goes against the book. I was $8 down in 2 hours never won a hand. It must be more than just a loosing streak i mean i won when id never read a book cause i just bet and raised like maniac.

[scott1]

Hey Radio,

You probably haven't played enough to get a good read on whether you are playing too tight or not. How many hours have you played? Are you tracking # of hands?

I'm playing a mix of .25/.50 and .5/1 since I started and have a pretty good BB/100 ratio at the .25/.50 level. If I see a table with a consistent 63% seeing the flop my mouth starts watering.

I play slightly looser than most books seem to suggest. Limit HE is a very different game at the micro limit levels versus the high level games.

If you do choose to loosen up your starting hands, be prepared to muck after the flop unless you get a piece of it. Also, keep in mind that as you move up in limits you need to tighten up your starting hands if you get accustomed to the looser style of play.

[uuDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
I was $8 down in 2 hours never won a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
16 BB in 2 hrs is not much really. You don't have a feel for the variance of the game yet. The next hand you could easily find yourself pumping the nut flush draw and win a 25 BB pot and be ahead for the session. That's just the way it goes.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was $8 down in 2 hours never won a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
16 BB in 2 hrs is not much really. You don't have a feel for the variance of the game yet. The next hand you could easily find yourself pumping the nut flush draw and win a 25 BB pot and be ahead for the session. That's just the way it goes.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well put! I am currently on a 100 bb downslide. They happen, and they can really make you doubt your game.

[Don_Lapre]

I haven't read it yet but I hear from a lot of people that Sklansky's new book on beating low limit hold'em is quite good. When the games are real loose and aggressive I think you want to play big suited connectors and pocket pairs, if you miss the flop fold. Big cards like AK and AQ off-suit don't play well when everyone is seeing the flop. Good luck!

DL

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]
When the games are real loose and aggressive I think you want to play big suited connectors and pocket pairs, if you miss the flop fold. Big cards like AK and AQ off-suit don't play well when everyone is seeing the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is just wrong.

[zuluking]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read it yet but I hear from a lot of people that Sklansky's new book on beating low limit hold'em is quite good. When the games are real loose and aggressive I think you want to play big suited connectors and pocket pairs, if you miss the flop fold. Big cards like AK and AQ off-suit don't play well when everyone is seeing the flop. Good luck!

DL

[/ QUOTE ]

The book is by Ed Miller and your last statement is so far from acurate that its not funny.

[Radio]

So is the general concensus that i should loosen up a bit and play a few more semi-good hands or should i just try and ride it out and hope my bankroll survives? It makes sense to me that if everybody is seeing the flop then i should loosen up a little maybe no maniac play like them tho.

[AngryCola]

[ QUOTE ]
So is the general concensus that i should loosen up a bit and play a few more semi-good hands or should i just try and ride it out and hope my bankroll survives? It makes sense to me that if everybody is seeing the flop then i should loosen up a little maybe no maniac play like them tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

The short answer to this question is that you should read Small-Stakes Hold'em: Winning Big With Expert Play, by Ed Miller. After you finish reading it, go ahead and try out what you have learned. Then read it again.

It seems from your description that you are definitely playing a bit tight for those loose limit games.

Also, I hope you were kidding about being "destroyed" because you were down $8. The variance of the lower limits will cause you to take downswings much larger than that. /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Radio]

That $8 was just in one 2 hour session Iv been loosing for last 4 or 5 days in a row and going down each day. At this rate my bankroll will be gone in a couple of days.

[Radio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So is the general concensus that i should loosen up a bit and play a few more semi-good hands or should i just try and ride it out and hope my bankroll survives? It makes sense to me that if everybody is seeing the flop then i should loosen up a little maybe no maniac play like them tho.

[/ QUOTE ]

The short answer to this question is that you should read Small-Stakes Hold'em: Winning Big With Expert Play, by Ed Miller. After you finish reading it, go ahead and try out what you have learned. Then read it again.

It seems from your description that you are definitely playing a bit tight for those loose limit games.

Also, I hope you were kidding about being "destroyed" because you were down $8. The variance of the lower limits will cause you to take downswings much larger than that. /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

When was that book written? Im going to get it this week. Is it one of the classics?

[stigmata]

Hi

I'm sorry to hear about your bad swing, but it does sound like that is exactly what it is. The microlimits are very beatable using a simple strategy - tight preflop, followed by "fit or fold" on the flop.

You need to stick with the way your playing and you should be a winning player. However, it can be very depressing playing tight poker - you can wait 15 minutes for a playable hand and then your top pair gets cracked on the river by some fool with 2 outs. Its something you have to learn to deal with.


The general advice (often given in this forum) for your situation:

1. It is generally accepted that you need a bankroll of $150 for your limit (300 x Big Bets). I guess you are not playing with this bankroll, which means an inevitable downswing could bust you out. To be honest $50 should be enough, but you do run a risk playing with a short bankroll.

2. read "winning low limit hold 'em" and then "small stakes hold 'em". Read this forum, particularly the micro-limits forum. You will learn alot from reading the responses to other peoples hands. Probably best to refrain from posting your own hands untill you get a feel for the common mistakes etc.

3. For now, playing the microlimits, you can probably loosen up *slightly* from late position. Because so many peopl are seeing the flop, drawing hands (e.g. med-low suited connectors) can become useful. However, you should be able to beat these limits by just playing premium hands. If you hit top pair on the flop (or two pair or trips), try to protect your hand as much as possible - make it expensive as possible for people to hang around. Raise, re-raise, 3-bet or check-raise the flop (if you are certain someone is going to bet behind you).

That should do you for now. Keep reading these forums and welcome aboard. I have been hanging around here for a couple of months and I have learnt far more than any book could teach me.

Good luck & hope your bad run ends soon.

[Radio]

Cheers that a reassuring post mate Im going to loosen up a slightly but not to the level of those fools.

[froggy527]

You might try lower limits. You'll still see the wild
play,and you can stretch your bankroll out some and
refine your game.

[KowCiller]

It's relatively new but it will definitely be one of the classics in time.

Click on the "Books" link in the left hand pane and scroll down until you see the read book called Small Stakes Hold 'em (aka SSH on these boards).

Good Luck,
KoW

[Radio]

Yeah ill need to change sites Im playing at ladbrokes and the lowest fixed limit games are .25/.50. I had a game a NL and still got destroyed lost a further $10s. The game was even wilder people seemed to win simply by buffing and going all in at every chance and makeing everybody else back off LOL. Did see 1 or 2 loose the lot tho. But im still slowly just loosing bankroll I stay in the games a while by being tight but i hardly ever win and slowly go down. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[RydenStoompala]

Radio

Stay with hands that make sense and pay more attention to position. Read more. Lots of loose players are going to give you great odds on drawing hands like open-ended straights and flush draws. Wait for good flops and play the hands agressively.

[uuDevil]

If your bankroll is in danger definitely find a place to play lower limits.

I know it doesn't seem like it when you are a new player, but "Tight is right."

I see all of your posts so far are in this forum. Try posting some hands where you had trouble in the microlimit forum.