Most Important Thing To Remember in Stud 8

This is courtesy of Andy B. from a post down below(parenthetical comments by me):


"...(I)f you catch a (whatever card that appears to improve your hand at least somewhat) on fourth, that's great, but you still are likely to be behind in either direction."


Think about it.


Write it down on the inside of a matchbook cover and place it near your stack the next time ya play stud 8.


"Don't cost nothin'" - John Belushi, "Animal House"


p.s. from Regis Philbin: "From best to worst rank the following poker games in terms of best 'chasing' odds: A. Razz, B. Hold 'em, C. Stud high only, D. Stud hi/lo 8 qual."

> p.s. from Regis Philbin: "From best to worst

> rank the following poker games in terms of

> best 'chasing' odds: A. Razz, B. Hold 'em, C.

> Stud high only, D. Stud hi/lo 8 qual."


A, B, C, D

> p.s. from Regis Philbin: "From best to worst


> rank the following poker games in terms of


> best 'chasing' odds: A. Razz, B. Hold 'em, C. > Stud high only, D. Stud hi/lo 8 qual."


C,A,D,B

Assuming all games are being played limit. And considering chasing to be chasing as opposed to drawing with favourable odds.


C A B D.


Stud is clearly the easiest to truely chase. In fact chasing is the reccomended play in many situations. Taking Queens and reraising a K to get heads up is the standard play in many situations.


Razz is the next easiest as you have many more outs. There are a lot more cards that give you nothing than give you something.


Stud/8 vs Holdem is a tough choice. In holdem a frequent scenario is AK vs AQ where both players like their hands but one is drawing to only 3 outs.


Stud 8 it is rarely correct to chase. If your hand has good 2 way potential then you need to take cards off depsite being behind in both directions, but having a good scooping chance is hardly what i call chasing. On the low side you can draw against a rough made low with a smooth draw, but you should almost never chase with a one way high hand.


So there you go, thoughts included.

I think Ray Zee's point, which I've heard elsewhere, is that hold'em ranks last for chasing because of the community cards. Too often a card that seems to help you can often give your opponent the nuts if you are holding the inferior hand.

Good thing you started a new thread, Bill, as you're the only guy that's read the original message so far. /images/smile.gif I'm glad to see Ray chime in here, and I'm hoping he'll comment on the stud/8 hands I've posted recently. In the original thread, Bill started a tangent where he mentioned a weakness for a stud/8 starting hand such as (AhKh)3s, which I'm not especially tempted by. What I said was that even if you catch a small heart with this hand, you may be behind in both directions.


My tentative ranking for the three games is stud, razz, hold'em, and stud/8. I'm pretty sure that I have the first two right, and I think that the order of the other two depends on your definition of "chasing." There is quite a bit of difference between drawing to a two- or three-outer in hold'em and drawing to a five- or six-outer, and there is quite a bit of difference between drawing for half the pot in stud/8 when it's costing you one bet a round and drawing for half the pot when it's jammed. The best to worst considering these different scenarios:


Drawing to five or six outs in hold'em.

Drawing for half the pot relatively inexpensively in stud/8.

Drawing to two or three outs in hold'em.

Drawing for half the pot when it's jammed in stud/8.


Stud/8 is a bad game for drawing, but just how bad it is depends on your opponents. I'm happy to report that my stud/8 opponents don't jam that much. There are also a few chronic chasers. /images/smile.gif

Ray, does the community nature of HE outweigh the split pot factor of S8 where you're often chasing for only half the pot?


Also, I was always under the impression that it was easier to suckout in Razz than in Stud Hi, but maybe I was getting confused remembering what Sklansky wrote about taking a 432A against a made 98.


FWIW my ranking would be ACBD. Funny how everyone's picked different so far.

Interesting point about stud8 being a bad drawing game. I agree with you entirely if the pots are frequently jammed, but in softer games i consider stud8 to be the number 1 drawing game. Well actually i should say the number 1 redrawing game.


Fortunately when i play most of the time the jamming occurs i do it, or its done by some idiot who i'm freerolling on. Having a lock low with multiple redraws for high and playing against some fool who is reraising you with Kings up is a great situation which doesn't seem to happen in any other game. The only thing better is when the same fool does it when you have lock low and already have him beat for high.