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Bigwig
10-25-2004, 04:32 PM
This appears to be a weakness in my game. Help Bigwig.

Now, there is something to be said for defending your blinds. Obviously, if it's apparent to your opponents that you'll fold everything but the top hands, they'll be able to steal more frequently.

But, defending your blinds with too large a range of call and reraise requirements can get you into serious trouble, since you're playing out of position, and sometimes that bully on the button actually has QQ.

So, when you defend your blinds by calling for pot odds, how do defend/attack on the flop? Here's an example:

You put the raiser on a good hand. Range of 88-AA, AKs -ATs, AKo-AJo, KQs-KJs. The raise is standard 3XBB. Everyone folds to you in the BB. You look down and see KQs. Against the aforementioned hands, you are about a 3:2 dog. But, you're getting better than 2:1 on your money.

In this scenario, do you call? You'll be out of position, and will have to almost always flop a K or Q to be comfortable that you're ahead (and still not be 100% sure).

But, let's say that you do call in this scenario, or one similar. What then? Check to raiser and come back over the top with your hit flop? Check/fold if you miss? Come out betting (stop n go style) with any flop holding a pp?

I guess what I'm getting at, is what is the proper amount of pot odds to be getting to justify a defense of your blinds? Considering that you might be dominated, and out of position.

Thanks.

Bigwig
10-25-2004, 06:23 PM
Do be doo be doo.

lastchance
10-25-2004, 06:26 PM
Check-raise to defend your horrible position and what people expect to be a terrible hand in the blinds. Play suited connectors more, AX sooted, those hands that hit cards.

Klak
10-25-2004, 06:33 PM
it all depends on the stage in the tourney, size of stacks, blinds, etc... id say early on you can let that go. later you have to push.

TheDrone
10-25-2004, 08:01 PM
I think pot odds is the wrong indicator to focus on unless the raiser is all-in. A 3:2 dog means that you win 40% of showdowns, not that you are ahead on the flop 40% of the time. That said, I would call in your scenario as long as it was less than 10% of my stack. Stack size is an important consideration here.

Also, I'm not so concerned about defending my blind as much to a known tight player who raised in EP or MP. I don't think anyone is going to conclude that they can steal from you because you folded here, and it's less likely the tight player will pay you off if you hit. IMO defending your blind more against a LAG is more important because they are the ones who will pay you off if you hit and they will try to exploit you more if you keep folding. It's important to notice when tight players have switched gears and loosened up though.

Another thought - I will defend with a wider range of hands if the raiser's post-flop play is exploitable. For instance, if I know the raiser will fold a ragged flop with his overcards. Very read dependent of course.

Bigwig
10-25-2004, 08:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think pot odds is the wrong indicator to focus on unless the raiser is all-in. A 3:2 dog means that you win 40% of showdowns, not that you are ahead on the flop 40% of the time. That said, I would call in your scenario as long as it was less than 10% of my stack. Stack size is an important consideration here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I agree stack size is important. This is the sort of answer I was looking for. Okay, so you'll call a reasonable raise with this hand, if it's not for a considerable amount of your stack. What kind of an edge do you need to call 20%?

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I'm not so concerned about defending my blind as much to a known tight player who raised in EP or MP. [/qoute]

This is generally my position as well. Also, it seems to be far less important to defend your blinds early, because you're only in the BB once every 8-9 hands, and it's not very easy for your opponents to label you as an aggressive or weak defender. At least, that's what I think.

[ QUOTE ]
Another thought - I will defend with a wider range of hands if the raiser's post-flop play is exploitable. For instance, if I know the raiser will fold a ragged flop with his overcards. Very read dependent of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. Thanks.