Raising with Mid Pairs on Button after UTG Limp?

[Cleveland Guy]

Grisga and I were discussing this in the "Preflop Quiz" thread, and wanted to give it it's just due.

If you have a Mid Pair (77-99) on the button. UTG (or UTG +1) Limps. Folded to you on the button. Are you calling or raising?

Also - at what limit does this change? and how does knowing that the SB and BB will do effect your decision.

If you know SB will call with any Face, and BB will defend with almost any 2, does that change your action?

My thoughts were the Mid Pair is a call on lower limits, usually where there will be less folds behind you, but a raise on the higher limits as you are more likely to push out the others.

Obvously table reads can change this but what are others thoughts.

One Final question. How low of a PP would you raise with here?

Once again, please make sure to tell us the limit you play at.

[J.R.]

5-10 6-max (a bit of 10-20), and I'd raise all 3.

If you know SB will call with any Face, and BB will defend with almost any 2, does that change your action?

I still raise, cause my hand has an edge over these hands and I retain the postflop initiative, so its on them to fit with the flop to continue. If the blinds are both very loose postflop callers as well them I might consider limping.

How low of a PP would you raise with here?

It depends on UTG's postflop tenciousness and limping standards, but against a random player I will often riase 55 here.

[MEbenhoe]

I like to raise in this situation preflop if theres a possibility that one or two of the blinds will drop. If the blinds are the type that will call with any two and play them agressive postflop, in this situation I'd rather call.

As to how low of a pair I would do this with depends on who the players are in the blind and who the player is that limped. There are certain occasions in which I would raise with even 22, but in situations like this I'd be raising with anything that I'd raise as a blind steal as well.

So the basic answer to your question is that I believe the aspects of this play are completely player dependent

[Cleveland Guy]

I agree it's player dependent, which I did put in one of my original posts on the other thread. We are just looking for some "general guidelines" No "Theory" question is going to have any answer that is 100% correct.

Another thing that you have to take into account, is would the UTG limper be the type of person to limp re-raise?

Now you are playing 3 bets into a possible 3 way pot with 88.

[Peter_rus]

I raise this regardless of limits for value. If UTG limps even only 10% of time you have value bets against usual set (low to mid pairs, suited aces, suited-connected hands)with A7o,A5s,KQo, KJs,44. If he limps more than 10% than KTo,KTs,QTs,Axo are too become raising hands.

If blinds are very loose and you pretty sure it will be 3-4-way. Than just remove raising with some minor offsuit hands and Axo hands which have not good implyed odds.

With pair you like actually raise with loose players on button as in many cases it will checked for you on a flop and you will be able to get turn card for free if you feel you're behind right now.

You don't fear multyway here as you have normal implyed odds and some chances one of the blinds fold and you can steal on flop.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have a Mid Pair (77-99) on the button. UTG (or UTG +1) Limps. Folded to you on the button. Are you calling or raising?

[/ QUOTE ]

77-99 are all really easy raises. I included 66 and 55 in the quiz because they are not so obvious. I had been raising 66 and folding 55 in that spot but I'm going to start raising 55 as well I think.

But 99-77 are just too good not to raise. You will have a dominating hand so often.

[Grisgra]

For the record, I play 5/10, where the SB rarely defends with just any one face card and the BB will sometimes not defend. In this situation, I raise with 55 or better against a random BB and random UTG.

IN GENERAL, though, I would always raise 99 even if I knew the SB and BB call with anything. Similarly, I would likely raise with 88 even if the SB and BB will call with nothing but one face card. I'm probably limping with the rest of the pocket pairs if they are super-loose, though, maybe folding 22 through 44.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]

IN GENERAL, though, I would always raise 99 even if I knew the SB and BB call with anything. Similarly, I would likely raise with 88 even if the SB and BB will call with nothing but one face card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely agree with this statement. For some reason when I wrote my response I was thinking low pairs even though the subject is mid pairs.

[Rounder041]

I would raise all of these. Even if the SB and BB will call, you should still be ahead, and also make way to have control on the flop.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
If the blinds are the type that will call with any two and play them agressive postflop, in this situation I'd rather call.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the opponents you describe, I think calling is the worst option here. This is basic small stakes stuff - small pairs need lots of players, unless you can raise and get it shorthanded.

[MEbenhoe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the blinds are the type that will call with any two and play them agressive postflop, in this situation I'd rather call.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the opponents you describe, I think calling is the worst option here. This is basic small stakes stuff - small pairs need lots of players, unless you can raise and get it shorthanded.

[/ QUOTE ]

The type of player I was describing will bet the flop from EP so you can count on those bets being there, giving you better odds for your set in my weird way of looking at the situation. So playing against these types of players you will have what I consider "proper odds" with fewer players and see the flop cheap. Then with your position on the button you can take full advantage of these aggresive players on the times when you hit your set.