Mirage 10-20: Folding flush for 1 bet on the river

After eating dinner (decent lasagna), I walked back up to the Strip and played some more 10-20 stud at the Mirage. Here's a hand where I mucked a flush for just one bet on the river.


The third street boards are:


(6h,7h)3h ME!

(x,x)Qc

(x,x)7s

(x,x)Td

(x,x)4s

(x,x)6c

(x,x)5d

(x,x)Jh


I'm the low-card and bring it in for $3. The Qc calls. The next three players fold. The 6c and 5d call. The Jh folds. Four players go to fourth street for the bring-in.


The fourth street boards are:


(6h,7h)3h,4d ME!

(x,x)Qc,Ks

(x,x)6c,3c

(x,x)5d,6s


The QcKs bet. The other two players called. With my gut-shot straight and three-flush, I think I have an easy call.


The fifth street boards are:


(6h,7h)3h,4d,8h ME!

(x,x)Qc,Ks,2s

(x,x)6c,3c,8c

(x,x)5d,6s,Jd


The QcKs2s bets. The 6c3c8c calls. The next player seems very uncomfortable when the player on his right calls with three clubs on his board and mucks. I'm not too thrilled about those clubs either since my flush draw is only 8-high. I call.


The sixth streee boards are:'


(6h,7h)3h,4d,8h,9h ME!

(x,x)Qc,Ks,2s,Ah

(x,x)6c,3c,8c,Kc


The high-board checks to the "obvious flush". The 6c3c8cKc bets.


This was a real frustrating situation. I've made my flush but it's only 9-high and I'm staring at a King-high club four-flush board. To make the situation worse, the Ah just fell on the third players board on sixth street. On the positive side, I've got and open-ended straight flush draw and I don't fold those. I called.


The seventh street boards are:


(6h,7h)3h,4d,8h,9h(5s) ME!

(x,x)Qc,Ks,2s,Ah(x)

(x,x)6c,3c,8c,Kc(x)


Right rank but wrong suit. The high board checked. The clubs bet.


I folded my flush for one bet.


The other player called and both hands were shown. Results tomorrow.


As an interesting side note, I rivered a gut-shot Queen-high straight flush just twenty minutes earlier.

1. did you consider a raise on fourth? you might get a free card.


2.i think you have to call here. players make some strange plays with a flush draw on board. if he does not have the flush he will almost always bluff on the river and you dont have to catch him too often to make it a good call. plus if he had a draw he might have raised on fourth street to get a free card himself. call but be prepared to lose.


Pat

I think I would have called with my made flush and just paid off a higher one. I also would have bet the "obvious flush", if I was that player. And I would have called with my stright or two high pair if I was the only caller after you folded. You fold saved one bet, but with even only a 10% shot at the pot this size, a call is OK too, IMHO.


But it hard for me to fold a made hand, even if its a low one.

I am in the habit of calling down open four-flushes with two pair, and I believe that I make a profit from these calls overall. If you were going to treat your hand as a two-outer, you should have folded sixth. I call this down 100% of the time unless I'm against someone who absolutely never bluffs.

You have detailed hand enactments. Do you actually remember exactly the cards of all the players in the game without having written it down during the hand? Is this real?

My cards are easy to remember.


Also, it's easy to remember the cards which will improve my hand. For example, I was quick to note the 5d doorcard of the player on my right when I picked up the gut-shot straight draw on 4th street. Also, I was understandably annoyed when the Ah fell on my immediate left on 6th street.


Other players cards are easier to remember when they stay past 5th street. I could remember the ranks of the club flush (who won the pot) because I put him on the flush draw and had to be alert that he could make a bigger flush than I did. When he catches the dangerous Kc on 6th street, it really stands out. Before that, I was aware that his highest showing club was the 8c- the same has my highest heart.


The player who started with (x,x)Qc,Ks was the player betting on 4th and 5th street. Therefore, I initially thought "He could have a pair of Kings or Queens" when he bet. That makes it easy to remember his cards.


The fourth player on 5th street had (x,x)5d,6s,Jd. When he reluctantly folded, I thought he may have given up on a straight draw when he saw the three clubs on his immediate right. He may have concluded that he was drawing dead or much worse than that opponent.


After a hand like this (especially when I make a big laydown), I make some mental notes about the hand and what everybody had. When I get home, I reconstruct the hand before posting it so that it can be as accurate as I can make it.


It's certainly possible that I've made a mistake, especially on the third street cards that were folded. Often, I only remember that they were non-duplicated cards (duplicated cards stand out and are much easier to remember) that were irrelevent to my hand. In those situations, I simply make the card a blank for completeness sake.

The clubs did indeed have a King-high club flush. The other player had Kings-up.


Of course, I have to be correct in my fold a vast majority of the time (90%+?) in order for it to be correct. However, this player struck me as the type who only bets the river with a big hand (straights or better) and check-calls everything 2else. Those types are in abudance in Vegas.

I would have not folded and rather pay the one bet to see his flush especially if there is another player calling with weaker hand. But i understand your thinking and to be honest with you i folded few times the winner online and finally learned that you have to make that crying call when the pots get that big(over 10 bb). I was also trying to save the bets here and there but you have to pick your spots carefully and making that crying call is not on of those times.


bigstu

one aspect is that if these players are even slightly tough they will recognize you as a player who will make tough folds, and this is not a good situation for you.


Pat

This is only true if they knew I folded a flush. Granted, I had three hearts showing but I was also the low card. However, since they didn't see my cards, they probably assumed I was drawing to a hand and missed.

that is why i say they would have to be slightly tough. a decent player would know that you would not be still drawing to a flush since there was already a K high draw on board. so you either had a smaller flush and were just calling along or had a hand that could beat a flush if made (or they might think you were a weak player). Think about when you have a flush and other players call. what do you put them on if you have an obvious flush on board?


I only think this is one aspect to consider that no one yet discussed in this thread.


Pat