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Mammux
10-25-2004, 08:19 AM
Live NL tournament. Buy-in is appx $100 for 2000 chips, with rebuys at $30 for 2000 chips and one $30 add-on for 3000 chips.

We were approaching the end of the rebuy period. I'm at 3000 chips, when this hand comes up. Blinds are 150/300.

my hand: QQ

UTG (me) calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 and +3 calls, SB and BB calls (pot: 1500).

Flop: J22 rainbow

SB, BB pass, I raise 1000, fold to UTG+3 (villain), who calls.

Turn: 4

I raise another 1000, UTG+3 goes all-in. He is chip leader and has me covered. I call. He turns over 22. Could I have avoided this?

-Magnus

Copernicus
10-25-2004, 08:44 AM
Hard to say what the 22 will do, but limping with QQ UTG is going to get you into trouble far more than its going to trap anybody. You're in vs 4 players instead of the 1 you would be in against with a standard raise. If it wouldnt have chased the 22 you arent any worse off, and many players will drop small pairs, though here it looks like he is the button and may stick around.

Chief911
10-25-2004, 09:34 AM
Post-flop it would be almost impossible to read him as 2's. You let this hand get the better of you preflop. QQ is way too susceptable of a hand to limp UTG. I suppose if ANY limpers were getting reraised, and you were going to limp-raise. But that didnt happen.

You have to raise atleast 2.5xBB here. Someone toward the end could easily have limped a suited A2, or any pocket pair since they were given odds for playing a small PP with the limpers.

Raise that thing up!

Nick

Mammux
10-25-2004, 10:37 AM
Thanks for the advice. I have realized I am playing too weakly in tourneys whenever I am semi-shortstacked.

-Magnus

Walter Pullis
10-25-2004, 11:09 AM
This post intrigued me as I don't consider myself that good of a player, yet I usually handle premium hands well in all positions. I thought a pre-flop raise of 1000 would have handled this situation.
I have never been good at making decisions about draws, however. I guess ever player is different.

SossMan
10-25-2004, 11:27 AM
I like limping w/ KK/AA UTG better than with QQ. With QQ, you should be raising UTG. You have 10x, so you are close to, if not already in, all in or fold mode. I would push on a loose table, and raise 3xbb on a tight table. Even a mini-raise is better than a limp.

Push on that flop.

Bernas
10-25-2004, 12:02 PM
I like a preflop raise of 3x BB here. I would also consider a push depending on how tight the table was. If it was tight then just the 3BB raise. If it was loose then you need to push.

I think either might have gotten rid of the 2's depending on how bad or loose this guy was.

nightlyraver
10-25-2004, 03:18 PM
Hellz yeah you could have avoided this...

As I was reading, I did not put him on quads but rather A2s. Doesn't really matter, you're drawing dead to both. Your problem was just limping with QQ. Who does that!!?? Huge mistake. You should be raising with your premium hands about 4xBB every time you'll play from EP and occasionally with less (i.e. 77-TT, KQs, QJs, etc.) just to throw your opponents off. By just limping with QQ you cannot rule out someone holding a low card when a low card pairs on the flop. Had you raised, any typical player would have ditched those 2's and you probably would have taken down that pot. Slow playing your big pairs pre-flop is a terrible play unless you want to do something fancy with AA (still don't recomend this, but even if you did this exact same play with A's, you still would have lost.

Moral of the story - raising pre-flop from EP is a POWERFULL tool, use it...