AJo...What's he doing? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Ajax410

10-25-2004, 04:41 AM

Last time I'm going to state this. All posts I'm making in micro, unless otherwise noted, are going to be hands my friend plays at .5/1. Just want to get some of your feedback on how he's playing, as I'm trying to shore up his game so he can move up limits when his bankroll is the right size.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 3-bets, MP3 caps, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (19.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, CO calls, Hero calls, MP2 3-bets, MP3 caps, CO calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (17.75 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, MP3 raises, CO calls, Hero calls, MP2 3-bets, MP3 caps, CO calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls $0.50 (All-In).

River: (33.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, CO folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 34.25 BB
Main Pot: 31.75 BB, between MP2 and MP3.
Pot 2: 1.50 BB, won by MP3.
Pot 3: 1 BB, returned to MP3.

Ugh. I think this is terrible. The mistakes are numerous. To me, every single call he makes is a bad one...including pre-flop when it comes back capped to him. I think the PF raise is fine though. I can arguably see a case being made that he's drawing to a gutshot straight, but 4 outs (some of the queens are probably in hands anyway)? Anyone else disgusted by this one?

Surprisingly, my friend is making nearly 5 BB/100, but I don't see that continuing if he plays hands like these.

Ajax

ArchonsEngine

10-25-2004, 04:51 AM

Gah. I don't think there's much to say on this one. I can't fault him much for not mucking PF when it comes back capped, but it's probably the best play.

The sad thing about this hand is that, assuming all four queens are still out *and* his straight won't fall to a flush or boat (HUGE assumptions), he did have the odds to call it down. That's definitely not the case, though--the Qh has to be discounted when the flop has two hearts and the Qd is questionable, too, once the turn's a diamond. *Maybe* 3 total Q outs? I think folding the first time it's two to him is the way to go. No way should he be seeing the river in this one.

--ArchonsEngine

Omaha8Player

10-25-2004, 05:39 AM

Whit out hesitation I would first only call the first Preflop round and then I would fold fore the 3-bet. I think there is an exact same preflop scenario in SSH. AJo is not a Good hand in first position fore two bets!!!!

CWsports

10-25-2004, 06:55 AM

I fold when it's capped preflop and is 3 more bets back to you. And yes, there is almost an exact hand in SSH like this.

AVF2k1

10-25-2004, 07:04 AM

I would only call preflop and fold the hand to the 3-bet. He won't be a wining player if he ceeps playing that kind of play.

btspider

10-25-2004, 11:50 AM

absolutely standard UTG raise with AJo.
he must fold this PF when it comes back capped.

I can't fault him for seeing the turn. There will be a huge payoff if he catches on the turn and is not outdrawn (or split drawn) on the river. He has to recognize that no one is slowing down on the turn and fold.. especially since one of them is nearly all-in. That makes it more likely he'll raise and removes all the implied odds he is expecting from that player.

I imagine someone has KK and someone probably went all-in crazy with AK/AA (maybe TT..)

Klak

10-25-2004, 11:53 AM

i agree with everyone else. this is not a hand you want to play when it is capped preflop. you have almost no chance to win vs the likly capping hands.

Reqtech

10-25-2004, 12:01 PM

His hand not being suited puts him at a severe disadvantage. It's probably correct to fold to the cap pf, but I can't blame him for calling.

As for the flop, he was getting 11:1 on the nut straight draw. While it is correct to call with that pot, I would've folded thinking that the flop would be capped, which it was. Would he have called on the flop if it came back to him capped? Because that's basically what he did when he called two bets cold each time.

With that kinda of aggression, you have to think that getting an ace would be no good, since you're probably dominated, so only a queen will help.

The same thinking for the turn. He's getting 10:1 odds for his inside straight to hit, though most likely it will be capped like the flop was.

For a 33BB pot, I'd make a crying call at the end, just on the prayer that out of 33 hands, ace high would win one of them.

imaptone

10-25-2004, 12:08 PM

Seems to me the only place to bailout is preflop, when it is raised twice behind him. Other than that, the pot has gotten so huge that i think he has to continue on the flop and turn since the pot has gotten so huge. But I would have bailed pre flop. These are hands I would sometimes hit that made me think AJo could beat QQ and AK, and ultimately cost me a lot of ching ching.

MarkL444

10-25-2004, 12:55 PM

The UTG raise is ok, but he shoud fold to the cap. His chances of being dominated are too strong. Drawing to a gutshot with two hearts on the board and that much aggression is bad.

PokerIsLife

10-25-2004, 01:08 PM

I'm rather surprised that a lot of ppl are saying that pf raise with AJo UTG is standard. What's the thinking behind this? I can imagine only doing this like 1 of 10 times for variety's sake.

In this hand, I think Folding pf is the right move after it comes back capped.

btspider

10-25-2004, 01:12 PM

AJo is not a great multiway hand, but it is likely to be the best hand out of ten random hands.

raise it UTG to limit the field. more importantly (IMO), it becomes an easier hand to play postflop. if someone 3-bets PF, be wary of a bigger Ace. if no one shows any strength, you have a more dominating presence for the rest of the hand and again have more accurate information when someone plays back at you.

the same applies to KQo UTG.. I played much better with it once I started raising PF with it.

JDErickson

10-25-2004, 01:18 PM

PF as others have said shold have folded when 2 more back to him.

After that he has the odds to see the turn and river. Approx 8:1 to hit on turn or river.

btspider

10-25-2004, 01:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PF as others have said shold have folded when 2 more back to him.

After that he has the odds to see the turn and river. Approx 8:1 to hit on turn or river.

[/ QUOTE ]

8:1? I think Hero should see the turn (given the poor PF call), but fold when its 2 bets to him the first time.

Given the action thus far, it looks like either AA, KK, or AK is out there, so Hero really only has his Q outs. Throw in CO cold-calling all the way and it looks like the Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif needs to be discounted a fair amount. Also, with MP2 nearly all-in, his 3-bet is to be expected. This also eliminates one of your implied odds revenue streams if you do catch on the river.

MarkL444

10-25-2004, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm rather surprised that a lot of ppl are saying that pf raise with AJo UTG is standard. What's the thinking behind this? I can imagine only doing this like 1 of 10 times for variety's sake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because at this limit, people are still going to call with worse hands.

SlantNGo

10-25-2004, 02:33 PM

I think UTG with AJo is one of those situations where raising and calling are very close, and just pick one, depending on your read of the table. But fold when it's two back to him.