World poker open hand

500 dollar 7 card stud tournament


The third street boards are:


(3,a)3 ME!

(x,x)7

(x,x)6

(x,x)8

(x,x)4

(x,x)K

(x,x)4

(x,x)5


I bring it in for 15 blind with the 3. Next player folds. 6 raises, 4 calls, K reraises and i reraise again hoping to get everyone to fold and play against the pair of kings with the option of checking on 5th or 6th street and getting the free card. By the way the player with the K is Phillip Ivey who is a very good player. Six calls the other player folds and king calls as well. Three players see fourth street.


The fourth street boards are:


(3,a)3,9 Me

(x,x)k,5 Ivey


(x,x)6h 7h


The K checked, and here I am thinking that hearts are live and that the last person will probably check behind me. I know that I do not have the best hand here so i hope to get the free card here The woman with 6h 7h bets and we both call.


(3,a)3,9,9 Me

(x,x)k,5,7 Ivey


(x,x)6h 7h 8


I decide to bet my 2 pair and hope to take it there since i showed soe strnegth early. The woman calls and Ivey decides to fold after thinking for long time.


The sixth street boards are:


(3,a,)3,9,9, 5 Me


(x,x)6h 7h 8 6 her


Here I decided to check since she paired the dooor card and i would not want to get raised hereand I know that she will not fold if I bet. She bets I call.


On the river I didnt improve so its check ,check and she takes it with 2 pair (she had QQ in the hole).


In my opinion i overplayed this hand a little bit as I was not favourite from the beginning but this play was from 7 csfap book by Ray zee ( by the way great book).


Any comments are welcomed.


BIGSTU

I have extremely limited tournament experience so I'll treat this hand as if it were played in a typical 15-30 ring game.


3rd street: Anybody who has read 7CSFAP should be familary with the ideas behind your 3rd street re-re-raise. However, I only make this play with a raise or reraise. I've never made it with a re-reraise. When faced with a raise and reraise, I usually assume I'm up against more than one good hand and will be in a multi-way pot. Therefore, I muck the pair of 3s and move on to the next hand. Your hand is only profitable if it's played heads-up.


Fourth street: When the woman catches a suited connector on 4th street, I'd be very concerened that I not only do not have the best hand but also do not have the best draw. Being the third person in a pot against the best hand and best draw is a recipe for losing lots of money.


However, I probably would have bet on fourth street hoping that the possible flush draw would raise so that the pot can be played heads-up.


Fifth street: You caught the perfect card- to get you into more trouble. Still, you absolutely must bet. However, your fourth street check will probably prevent you from taking the pot right there.


It seems obvious that Ivey did not have splt Kings.


Sixth street: I still bet here thinking that a flush draw is one of her possible holdings. I'm definitely not fearing trip 6s since it would be surprising to see a player raise from early position with split 6s on 3rd street and then take so much heat later on 3rd street. Maybe I'm wrong here since she called 5th street when you had an open pair of 9s.


When she bets, she has to have 9s-up beat. You're toast.


Seventh street: I check and call because of the size of the pot. She had an easy value bet on the river.

I would fold it. A 3 3 can not call the double raise. Need patience here.


A 3 3 can call single raise but can not reraise to narrow the field. It is better to have third player with mideum pair join it so keep the odds favorite to you. See the following odds list:


Two players: A 3 3: %41.68


K K 4: %58.32


Three players: A 3 3: %31.75


K K 4: %40.64


Q Q 5: %27.61


So it it better to have another player stay in. You can consider to raise or reraise in later street to narrow the field since the pot is getting big and you can get free card. But that is different story.


3 3 A can reraise if you think good player with KKs will fold becuase it represents 3 A A.


If your hand is not the best in the first three card, do not call the double bet.


RiverGuy

Your data seems reasonable although I'd like to know where it came from.


However, you're completely misinterperting it. The whole purpose of making the raise with (3,A)3 is to increase your chance of winning the pot from 31.75% to 41.68%. Playing this hand in a multi-way pot is disastourous since you are far less likely to win the pot with two small pair.


The dead money already in the pot is what makes this hand worth playing against a split pair of Kings. Also, you'll be able to save money by folding when the (K,x)K makes an open pair for Kings-up if you haven't alrady spiked an Ace.

If all three players bet and call to the river, 3 3 A will get even because its odd is %31.0


If two players bet and call to the river, 3 3 A will lose because its odd is %41.00.


So just calling is better than raising to narrow the field in the first three card.


How to play this hand in later street to increase your odds is very important. But never call the double bet in the first three cards.


RiverGuy

I think that You are both right that it was an easy fold. It was mistake to play that hand and it costed me. Since at the time I decided to play that I felt like a reraise was the best way to do it. Hopefully I will be able to avoid mistakes like that in the future and put the money in the middle with the best hand rather than just making fancy plays


BIGSTU

that Ivey does not have split K's??


Sitting Bull

But I think you may have played this hand correctly, considering the circumstances (chip count, time, etc) of where your at in the tournament. No question you misplayed if this was a ring game.

It's inconceivable that a good player would play split Kings like that.


I think a good player would have seized the opportunity to raise on 4th street and knock out Bigstu who showed weakness by checking on 4th. Also, I doubt a pair of Kings would have folded on 5th street just because Bigstud made an open pair. I suspect Ivey had a pocket pair lower than 9s or an unimproved King-high three-flush.

If he misplayed his hand if it had been in a ring game then it was an even worse play in a tournament since you can't reload if the play fails. Tournament play is not about pushing thin edges like this could have been one in a regular ring game.


The play was worse if it occured in the later stages of the tournament (although with a 15 bring-in, I suspect it was still early).


bigstu: you might try to post your hand in the tournament forum, it might get more "tournament" advice.


Nicolas

You want this hand to be heads-up. Really and truly you do. I don't think that bigstu had any real hope of getting it heads-up, so I probably would have gotten away from the hand on third. Once you have it heads-up, you are still a dog, but in addition to having the advantage of the dead money, you will also be acting last throughout the hand unless you improve.


This is a very important concept. In stud, most of your pairsy-type hands do better heads-up.

have to respect Bigstu's coming over the top AFTER K's re-raised.

He would be thinking pocket A's or a set of 3's.

His "fold" was dictated by the possibility that Bigstu already had him beaten


and the serious threat from the other player's board.

The combination was enough to justify a "fold" with K's__IF he had them.

A corollary of the "Projection Hypothesis"is that

good players tend to think that other good players will play hands the way that they themselves would play in certain spots.


Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

i think the reraise on third is an extremely marginalplay in a tourney. it is one thing to make this play correctly in a ring game. but in a tourney you are committing a lot of chips in a 50-50 situation. I got knocked out of the world poker finals on a similar hand, so i speak from experience. unless you have a very strong chip position i think the best play is to fold.


Pat

The main argument to this play is because, at the medium limits, the ante is significantly higher than at the lower limits. So if the structure of the tournament made for a relatively low ante in comparaison to the limits at this stage, then making this play was a mistake, tournament or not.


Nicolas