ray zee need your concise wisdom

Ray,

I posted the question below in the software forum, but I would like your comments. I have been using Wilson's Turbo 7CS/8 and it has forced me to reread your book over and over again. This weeks's question is regarding rough lows. In your book on pg 20, category 11: 3 cards to an 8, you say these hand are not playable unless they have an ace or straight possibilities. I generally don't play 8 lows on 3rd at all. But the following scenarios came up while I was practicing with the software. What are your comments?


----- posted in software forum: -------------

Mr. Wilson,

I love your software. BUT, I do not understand the algorithm for raising with rough lows in 7CS/8. Here are some examples.


xx/3d Bring in

xx/5s fold

xx/4c fold

xx/Tc fold

xx/5c Call

Ad,6d/ 8h - me

xx/6c

xx/7c


I check the Advice screen:

Recommend: Raise

position: late, few in

dead cards: A-8 range, 5 dead.


With 7 low cards on board and only and 8-6 low, how can it recommend a raise? A steal does not seem to make sense with the 8 as a door card. With the Ace up I could see it. And 5 dead cards seems high. What am I missing here? Is there something new for me to learn?


Another example on fourth street:


xx/4c2h

xx/9hAd bet

xx/6sQc fold

xx/6c2s call

8s4d/6d3c -me


xx/Th fold on 3rd

xx/Ks fold on 3rd

xx/5s fold on 3rd


The little warning hand shows up on the call button and I check the Advice screen:


8 low, no A, mix suit, no str draw.

Recommend: Raise

position: mid

opponents: 3

dead cards: 4


Why would you raise with a 86 low with a 42 and a 62 on board? With 4 dead cards: A,2,2,5 gone it looks pretty dismal. I think a call or a fold would be best. By the way the advisor recommended a call on 3rd St, which I don't feel comfortable with either.


Thanks for your response,

Keith O

The advisor is wrong, wrong, wrong. It should say fold.


Ray Zee has eloped with Doc Az. from the looks of things, so i answered instead.

im back from vacation. i dont know much about turbo stud software. but it looks like the old garbage in garbage out routine. you always have to use your common sense as well when taking any advice especially something spit out from a program. i dont know if this program takes into account that your opponents probably have legitamit hands. but to give it some credit though as both of these hands are not as bad as they look well maybe they are.

Hope you had a great holiday Ray.


Any advice on playing in super loose games, where over 95% of hands reach showdown, and this is usually between 3-6 players. Doesn't seem to matter what cards are out for many of these guys, and they are more than happy to call open trips with a straight or flush draw.

easy. you need to play mostly multiway hands. forget about pairs except aces in a raised pot. and most times aces may need a small card to go with them. in unraised pots taking a cheap card can be right as the implied odds are great, but dont go overboard. stay away from hands that do poorly in bigger fields like rough sevens and two pair hands. with the extra odds id play very tight on third in raised pots and looser than normal with hands that can scoop if improved early in unraised ones. live cards become the key as well, as most hands you will be needing some help late in the hand and paying dearly for it.

Thanks Ray but i meant stud high not eight or better. Sorry should have made that clear.