One Table Tourney Help

[jtnt1096]

I do fairly well in 9 player NL SNG's on Stars, but when I play in a 9-10 player SNG's at home games it seems the same thing happens every time.

Everyone usually plays fairly loose (especially early). I usually sit back and play tight. The problem is that it seems like after a few rounds and a few players get knocked off, I get down to the final 5 players and I am short stacked.

When I am short stacked it seems like I either have to have the nuts or I am dead. Everytime I try a bluff, a bigger stack calls me.

What can I do to correct this? Should I loosen up expecially early and try to get the chip lead? The only problem with that is I am afraid I will either get into the chip lead or be out in 8-10th place.

I am open to suggestions.

Thanks.

[Ryner]

Play more drawing hands while the blinds are low.
Bluff less.

[lastchance]

If people are calling off your bluffs, you don't need the nuts. You need TPGK, which you bet hard to limit the field. You need good draws (8+ outs to nuts, very close to it at least) which you can either value bet or call through looking to get paid off BIG when you hit.

Finally, value bet good hands. It really comes down to constantly getting value off a TPTK where normally you're beat when someone keeps calling you down.

[fujowpai]

Maybe play the opponents and your position a bit more, as opposed to your cards. In my short career at SNGs, I've noticed that players reveal their understanding of the game with amazing speed, compared to cash games.

Eric

[jtnt1096]

[ QUOTE ]
If people are calling off your bluffs, you don't need the nuts. You need TPGK, which you bet hard to limit the field. You need good draws (8+ outs to nuts, very close to it at least) which you can either value bet or call through looking to get paid off BIG when you hit.

Finally, value bet good hands. It really comes down to constantly getting value off a TPTK where normally you're beat when someone keeps calling you down.

[/ QUOTE ]

This actually seems to be my problem. I raise preflop with A-J suited. It seems like I get like 3-5 callers everytime. An Ace will come on the flop and I bet the pot. I get 1-2 callers. Then it seems like I get beat most of the time with A-4 when my opponent pairs a 4 on the turn or river. That is why I have tightened up, but it leaves my shortstacked.

Tonight with the blinds 150-300, I moved in with 10-10 on the button (1200 chips left) and got called with J-4 who was the big stack (small blind). A jack came on the flop and I lost.

Most info I have read say to play tight when play is loose, but it seems to leave me shortstacked and I get killed by the blinds amd big stacks later.

I am not sure if my opponents are just plain making mistakes and getting lucky or if I need to change my play. Either way it is killing me!

[lastchance]

How many shortstack all-ins have you had? How many people are left when you're shortstacked?

And I should have asked this question earlier, but what's the structure like?

Remember, there's a lot of variance in poker.

Also, you don't need to bet the pot when an ace falls unless there are killer draws out there. 1/2 to 3/4 pot generally does it.

[jtnt1096]

[ QUOTE ]
How many shortstack all-ins have you had? How many people are left when you're shortstacked?

And I should have asked this question earlier, but what's the structure like?

Remember, there's a lot of variance in poker.

Also, you don't need to bet the pot when an ace falls unless there are killer draws out there. 1/2 to 3/4 pot generally does it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I went all in with 5 people left.

Our structure is this:

2000 chips to start

Blinds are:
25-25
25-50
50-100
75-150
100-200
150-300
200-400
300-600
500-1000
1000-2000

The reason I usually bet the pot when I have top pair good kicker or top pair top kicker, is that 1-2 guys usually call me when I bet the pot. If I bet 1/2 or 3/4 the pot, I would probably get 1-4 call me.

I understand what you are saying, but for some reason these guys just don't get scared off.

[fujowpai]

[ QUOTE ]
This actually seems to be my problem. I raise preflop with A-J suited. It seems like I get like 3-5 callers everytime. An Ace will come on the flop and I bet the pot. I get 1-2 callers. Then it seems like I get beat most of the time with A-4 when my opponent pairs a 4 on the turn or river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to butt in here but if you raise AJs late after action players have limped, of course they are going to call your raise. Top pair is just a pair. Against several others dedicated to seeing cards, especially if they already paid something, that's pretty weak (IMO). Without two more suits to back up your play, throwing a bunch of money in is squandering it (IMO). If they are really drawing to one other card, you could've bet a lot less to make their calls a mistake.

Eric

[jtnt1096]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This actually seems to be my problem. I raise preflop with A-J suited. It seems like I get like 3-5 callers everytime. An Ace will come on the flop and I bet the pot. I get 1-2 callers. Then it seems like I get beat most of the time with A-4 when my opponent pairs a 4 on the turn or river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to butt in here but if you raise AJs late after action players have limped, of course they are going to call your raise. Top pair is just a pair. Against several others dedicated to seeing cards, especially if they already paid something, that's pretty weak (IMO). Without two more suits to back up your play, throwing a bunch of money in is squandering it (IMO). If they are really drawing to one other card, you could've bet a lot less to make their calls a mistake.

Eric

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree it is weak. That is why I clam up and only try to play Q-Q or better or A-K for the first few rounds, but it always seems to make me short stacked when I get to the final 5 or so.

So, I usually stray from those requirements now and then and play a hand like A-J suited and somehow always seen to get burned.

I just don't know what to try. Should I continue playing very tight with raising Q-Q or better or A-K, but add suited connectors and small pairs if I can limp in or get solid pot odds?

[fujowpai]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree it is weak. That is why I clam up and only try to play Q-Q or better or A-K for the first few rounds, but it always seems to make me short stacked when I get to the final 5 or so.


[/ QUOTE ]

I saw this kind of recommendation in an article on SNGs by Chris Moneymaker. To me, that makes no sense. You will get those hands around 4% of the time (off the top of my head). I gather also that your idea of loosening up is to throw in a few more seemingly good hands. In my view, as you get more opponents, it becomes more of a game of chance. It strikes me as a form of implicit collusion. The immediate potential reward (like their crazy all-ins) is enough to induce these players to gamble against your show of strength, which reeks of big cards and top pair. Then they "agree" to stick around until one of them beats it.

It seems to me you have to evaluate each deal separately. Also (IMO) you prefer to be first or last (when the flop comes) and avoid being man-in-the-middle. The opportunities for this are (generally) cut-off, button, blinds, and you may be able to force your position depending on those around you. If you achieve this, then you can influence the rest of that particular game. Ideally, you would like to achieve some effect without jeopardizing your ability to compete after this hand. This depends entirely on who's in with you at the moment. Basically, the calling stations are walking implied odds,the "system players" are pushovers. The drunks are to be simply avoided early.

So-called trouble hands (AQ, AJ, KQ, QJ, JT etc ) are especially bad under these circumstances (IMO). They can be played, of course, but only against the right opponents with the right stack sizes. Smallish pairs, AXs, and medium/small suited connectors are my main weapon for teaching respect to opponents who seem like they actually want to continue on in the tournament.

Just some thoughts from my brief SNG experience.

Eric

[shadow29]

Add small pairs and suited connectors if you can limp after a lot of limpers. You're getting the multi-way action you need and if you flop a set you'll bust some one and if you flop an incredible draw (or a straight or two pair) you'll get a lot of chips.

However, every time you get one of these hands you shouldn't play it. It really depends upon the exact situation (your position, whether you feel that someone will raise, etc).

[fujowpai]

[ QUOTE ]
Should I continue playing very tight with raising Q-Q or better or A-K, but add suited connectors and small pairs if I can limp in or get solid pot odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just noticed this last bit. It's implied odds that you're after. If you stay clear on the distinction in the context of the hand you're in, I don't imagine you'll have any more problems in the first few levels.