Hands for review [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

runa

10-23-2004, 10:07 PM

Hand 1: Whats my plan here?

Opponents are very loose but not particularly tricky.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP posts a blind of $1.
CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, MP (poster) calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls, Button raises, Hero???

Final Pot: 23 BB

Hand 2: PF too loose? Can I bet this river?

Opponents are typical loose/passive Empire players.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP posts a blind of $1.
UTG folds, MP (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP bets, Button folds, Hero raises, BB folds, MP calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

River: (6 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 6 BB

Hand 3: Am I getting too fancy on the flop? I felt I was spewing chips perhaps.

Opponents are very loose and slightly aggressive PF but straightforward and passive post flop.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, CO raises, Button folds, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP calls, CO caps, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero raises, UTG folds, MP calls, CO 3-bets, Hero folds, MP calls.

Turn: (12.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP checks, CO bets, MP calls.

River: (14.25 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP checks, CO calls $1 (All-In), MP calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

Hand 4: Converter didn't work so I did my best here.

Opponent was very passive and very loose.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif
2 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

Turn: (3.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

River: (5.25BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

MEbenhoe

10-23-2004, 10:42 PM

Hand 1: Call the flop raise, your overcards and backdoor flush draw give you enough to call with.

Hand 2: Bet the river, there are worse hands that will call you, also he could have been on the flush draw and missed and still call. Don't ask me why, but I've seen players make this call enough and also call with a worse pair enough to make this bet a good choice here.

Hand 3: I hate the checkraise here, you're not gonna make anyone fold here with it. Calling is ok because you have the implied odds to see one more card here in such a large pot.

Hand 4: Looks standard to me, nice hand.

Nottom

10-24-2004, 12:04 AM

Hand 1: call

Hand 2: I think the complete is fine, I'd bet the river. I think you are likely chopping at worst and he will usually call with any pair.

Hand 3: I think you can call a bet in the big pot, but raising is bad and folding is a reasonable option as well. Once you raise, I don't like folding here in a giant pot for one more bet.

Hand 4: Looks pretty standard to me.

Scotch78

10-24-2004, 05:07 AM

Hands 1, 3 & 4:
Nothing new to add.

Hand 2:
I think a check is your best river play here. While a loose player might call this river with a small PP, would he have bet the ace-high flop into an aggressor with three overcards showing (his pre-flop play makes TT+ unlikely)? Your river bet is -EV if the SB has an ace (you chop or lose) or an 8, and break even if he was on a flush draw, so you're specifically hoping he holds a 9. He might, but not 55% of the time.

Scott

ALL1N

10-24-2004, 05:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2:
Your river bet is -EV if the SB has an ace (you chop or lose) or an 8, and break even if he was on a flush draw, so you're specifically hoping he holds a 9. He might, but not 55% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]
He doesn't need to be winning 55% of the time he's called. That number is for when you are closing the action. Here is different.

If you check-call you will lose 1 bet to any better hand regardless. However, if you bet, you will probably only lose 1 bet too, since it is very extremely unlikely you will be raised here. Thus, the 1 bet gained from betting and being called by a lower pair, and the 1 bet gained from inducing a worse hand to bet is the only significant difference in value. And in my experience, you gain a bet from a worse hand here much more often than you induce a bluff.

runa

10-24-2004, 05:46 AM

Hand 2: I've been experimenting with completing from SB with Ax and have had some success. In this particular case I wasn't sure if I would be oukicked, but having played it PF I wasn't sure how to play it right. Do most SH players play the weak aces from the SB, and if so would a typical play look something like this? Perhaps CR the turn or something? It sounds like its ok overall with small debate on the river bet.

Hand 3: Looking back its actually a horrendous play. CR the PF capper was not a good idea, and folding to 1 SB was another error. I had been reading some of J.R.s posts on being able to fold on a single street when it becomes clear that you won't be winning that hand, but with the pot size and all I don't think that applies here...

Hand 4: I posted this because I don't usually play second pair this strong. I'm still having trouble picking spots where 2nd pair is worth pushing. If the ace had not fallen on the river and it was an

a) high card (K - T)
b) other rag that doesn't complete any obvious draws

how would you have played the river differently? Bet for value, check behind or call a bet?

mauisupaman

10-24-2004, 06:27 AM

Mark,
Hand 1 - Easy call after you're raised. I'd prefer not betting into the field, however. I'd much rather check call rather than risk having to pay two SB to see the turn.

Hand 2 - I don't care much for Axo even if you are in the SB and on a 6 max table. CR is good on the flop.

Hand 3 - [ QUOTE ]
Opponents are very loose and slightly aggressive PF but straightforward and passive post flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a pretty unique table to have LAG's PF turn into calling stationsn post flop. But anyway, you've got two limpers and CO raises. Unless you think your 3-bet will get it heads up I'd rather just call in this spot. The CR on the flop probably wasn't the greatest play. But the fold was a big error. You're getting around 22:1 on that call with implied odds plus you've got the T /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Hand 4 - [ QUOTE ]
I posted this because I don't usually play second pair this strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're going to be playing short handed you'd better start playing middle pair strongly. You've got position, backdoor potential, and no indication of strength by your opponent. You can't simply question what you would've done on the river had paint hit or a brick fell. It's a depends question. Depends on the action PF, flop, turn and river. You made a value bet on the river. No mystery to this hand.

A hui hou,
Adam

helpmeout

10-24-2004, 06:46 AM

1. call and fold the turn unimproved

2. Bet the river, this isnt a full ring game he probably has 2nd or 3rd pair.

3. Bet the flop and continue if not raised, I'd check the river. If raised on the flop then flod the turn unimproved.

4. standard

runa

10-24-2004, 02:25 PM

Hand 2:
I am assuming then that this should have been a value bet since worse hands will call. I'm also assuming that I can safely fold to a raise to an untricky opponent since people don't really bluff-raise the river at these limits and there aren't many hands that raise me that I can beat.

samdash

10-24-2004, 02:44 PM

With no raise preflop lets say A10 or better is unlikely. Now with the action so far, let's say a typical opponent will have either an ace, a nine or pocket pair, or a missed flush draw. Perhaps sometimes trip 8's will smooth call the turn and wait until the river to raise, but this is very unlikely. It will basically come down to the times he calls you with a 9 or a pair he made on the river with his flush cards compared to the times you may be able to make him bluff with a missed draw. I really hate the induce bluff play though, as it becomes very obvious to any thinking opponent that you intend to check/call. This is basic river value betting.

runa

10-24-2004, 05:39 PM

Hand 1:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP posts a blind of $1.
CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, Hero raises, MP (poster) calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP calls, CO calls.

River: (12 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, CO folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, MP calls, Button caps, Hero calls, MP folds.

Final Pot: 23 BB

Opponent shows down A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hand 2:

I think I'm starting to get the idea with value betting, and I almost never try to induce a bluff on the river (I'll learn that one next). I just had a hard time imagining what hands he'd call down with that I'd beat, but I suppose it does happen.

Opponent shows down J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hand 3:

CO shows KK and MP shows 45o. Good thing I didn't hit the third 10.

Hand 4:

Opponent calls down with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/club.gif so I was indeed ahead the whole way.

Thanks to everyone for their input!