02-28-2002, 11:41 AM
We play a home-made game called "Buy 'em".
Our game is $1-$5 hi-lo with 8 low or better to qualify. As you'll see, it's 5 card stud with 2 "switches". "Buy 'em" is played as follows.
1) Players are dealt 2 cards. One up, one down.
2) High hand bets.
3) Players are dealt an up card ( 2 up, 1 down ).
4) High hand bets.
5) Players are dealt an up card ( 3 up, 1 down ).
6) High hand bets.
7) Players are dealt down card ( 3 up, 2 down ).
High hand bets.
9) It is not time for the "first buy".
Going clockwise, players are then allowed to "Buy" a card.
It costs $5 to replace any card in their hand. If they choose to replace an up card, they "buy" an up card. A down card gets replaced face down. The player will have 5 cards in his hand after he buys.
10) After all remaining players get a chance to buy, the High hand bets.
11) It is not time for the "second buy".
Going clockwise, players are again allowed to "Buy" a card.
This time it costs $10 to replace any card in their hand. As before, if they choose to replace an up card, they "buy" an up card. A down card gets replaced face down.
12) High hand bets again
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My question is, does the "buy" conform to the normal poker odds? I ask this because some players get to "see" 5 cards. Some "buy" once to see 6, and some "buy" twice to see 7 total. Does the guy that get's to see more cards have an edge?
Keep in mind, players never have more than 5 cards in their hand.
Early mediocre MADE hands are risky hands. PERIOD!
As soon as you aren't buying cards anymore, you are at risk.
The buyers are paying a measly $5 and $10 to win 1/2 of a $450 pot. Your bets don't get them out. Your cards don't get them out. The pot keeps them in and with a low price to pay, it's worth buying for miracle cards everytime.
Maybe it's the cheap buys. Maybe it's the fact that a 5 card made hand is stuck watching someone that knows what he has to beat and gets to pay $55 max ( 2 capped bets and $15 in buys ) to win a $450 scoop, or $225 split.
Have you ever considered that it might be that the card rankings are off because of the double draw? Is this even possible? I'm just guessing, but...
Think about this.
It's almost like playing 5 card draw, with 2 draws for the guy trying to make a hand. And, instead of the guy not knowing what you have, he knows exactly what you have... therefore, he knows exactly what he has to beat.
For a measly $15, junk hands get all that extra information and 2 more cards to play with. I think this is where the problem is. It's simply too cheap to buy cards. $15 for longshot scoop draws. The buy price should be higher to make the buyers pay. It's the only way to protect your made hands. They have to be made to PAY for a bought hand. $10 + $20 is probably better. The lows might not draw for lows and back into high hands that much. The low hands made early will hold up. The high hands pushed from the start would hold up. Right now, it's a race to 7 with an advantage going to the guy that's buying cards.
We usually have 5 people minimum in the pot. I'd say this is a fair pot growth assessment for that game.
1st : 5 * $3 = $15
2nd : 5 * $5 =$15 + $25 = $40 pot
3rd : 5 * $5 = $40 + $25 = $65 pot
4th : 5 * $10 = $65 + $50 = $115 pot
5th : 5 * $20 = $115 + $100 = $215 pot
5 * $5 buys = $215 + $25 = $240 pot
6th 5 * $20 = $240 + $100 = $340 pot
5 * $10 buys = $340 + $50 = $390 pot
7th : 3 * $20 = $390 + $60 = $450 pot
You end up with $450 in the pot. This is assuming $3 to open and no raise until 4th card... which is probably assuming on the low side for our game. We'll get a more accurate idea of pot average if we watch it next week. It makes all the sense in the world to sail along and pay $15 to catch a miracle card. If you get 1/2 of the pot, you get $225. That pays for 3 hands worth of play after 4th street ( costs about $75 assuming you catch cards worth calling at the end, otherwise it's $55 ). If you get the miracle, you scoop $450.
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************** BIG QUESTION
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As far as RANKS are concerned, think about the following example.
Assume the following hand.
Player A has a pair of Kings, J, 9, 8.
Player B has 4 hearts and junker.
The odds of player A improving his hand are worse than player B.
Player A will discard an 8 and draw trying for 1 of 2 kings, 1 of 3 Js or 1 of 3 8s. He has 8 cards that can help... make him "2 pair" or better.
Player B will draw for the flush. He has 9 cards that can help.
So, the flush is more likely, but is ranked higher than the 2 pair and trips are.
Does this mean that, in this game, two pair should be more valuable than the flush?
Post your comments on the game, ranks, starting hands and strategies.
Our game is $1-$5 hi-lo with 8 low or better to qualify. As you'll see, it's 5 card stud with 2 "switches". "Buy 'em" is played as follows.
1) Players are dealt 2 cards. One up, one down.
2) High hand bets.
3) Players are dealt an up card ( 2 up, 1 down ).
4) High hand bets.
5) Players are dealt an up card ( 3 up, 1 down ).
6) High hand bets.
7) Players are dealt down card ( 3 up, 2 down ).
High hand bets.
9) It is not time for the "first buy".
Going clockwise, players are then allowed to "Buy" a card.
It costs $5 to replace any card in their hand. If they choose to replace an up card, they "buy" an up card. A down card gets replaced face down. The player will have 5 cards in his hand after he buys.
10) After all remaining players get a chance to buy, the High hand bets.
11) It is not time for the "second buy".
Going clockwise, players are again allowed to "Buy" a card.
This time it costs $10 to replace any card in their hand. As before, if they choose to replace an up card, they "buy" an up card. A down card gets replaced face down.
12) High hand bets again
----------------------------------
My question is, does the "buy" conform to the normal poker odds? I ask this because some players get to "see" 5 cards. Some "buy" once to see 6, and some "buy" twice to see 7 total. Does the guy that get's to see more cards have an edge?
Keep in mind, players never have more than 5 cards in their hand.
Early mediocre MADE hands are risky hands. PERIOD!
As soon as you aren't buying cards anymore, you are at risk.
The buyers are paying a measly $5 and $10 to win 1/2 of a $450 pot. Your bets don't get them out. Your cards don't get them out. The pot keeps them in and with a low price to pay, it's worth buying for miracle cards everytime.
Maybe it's the cheap buys. Maybe it's the fact that a 5 card made hand is stuck watching someone that knows what he has to beat and gets to pay $55 max ( 2 capped bets and $15 in buys ) to win a $450 scoop, or $225 split.
Have you ever considered that it might be that the card rankings are off because of the double draw? Is this even possible? I'm just guessing, but...
Think about this.
It's almost like playing 5 card draw, with 2 draws for the guy trying to make a hand. And, instead of the guy not knowing what you have, he knows exactly what you have... therefore, he knows exactly what he has to beat.
For a measly $15, junk hands get all that extra information and 2 more cards to play with. I think this is where the problem is. It's simply too cheap to buy cards. $15 for longshot scoop draws. The buy price should be higher to make the buyers pay. It's the only way to protect your made hands. They have to be made to PAY for a bought hand. $10 + $20 is probably better. The lows might not draw for lows and back into high hands that much. The low hands made early will hold up. The high hands pushed from the start would hold up. Right now, it's a race to 7 with an advantage going to the guy that's buying cards.
We usually have 5 people minimum in the pot. I'd say this is a fair pot growth assessment for that game.
1st : 5 * $3 = $15
2nd : 5 * $5 =$15 + $25 = $40 pot
3rd : 5 * $5 = $40 + $25 = $65 pot
4th : 5 * $10 = $65 + $50 = $115 pot
5th : 5 * $20 = $115 + $100 = $215 pot
5 * $5 buys = $215 + $25 = $240 pot
6th 5 * $20 = $240 + $100 = $340 pot
5 * $10 buys = $340 + $50 = $390 pot
7th : 3 * $20 = $390 + $60 = $450 pot
You end up with $450 in the pot. This is assuming $3 to open and no raise until 4th card... which is probably assuming on the low side for our game. We'll get a more accurate idea of pot average if we watch it next week. It makes all the sense in the world to sail along and pay $15 to catch a miracle card. If you get 1/2 of the pot, you get $225. That pays for 3 hands worth of play after 4th street ( costs about $75 assuming you catch cards worth calling at the end, otherwise it's $55 ). If you get the miracle, you scoop $450.
****************************************
************** BIG QUESTION
****************************************
As far as RANKS are concerned, think about the following example.
Assume the following hand.
Player A has a pair of Kings, J, 9, 8.
Player B has 4 hearts and junker.
The odds of player A improving his hand are worse than player B.
Player A will discard an 8 and draw trying for 1 of 2 kings, 1 of 3 Js or 1 of 3 8s. He has 8 cards that can help... make him "2 pair" or better.
Player B will draw for the flush. He has 9 cards that can help.
So, the flush is more likely, but is ranked higher than the 2 pair and trips are.
Does this mean that, in this game, two pair should be more valuable than the flush?
Post your comments on the game, ranks, starting hands and strategies.