Ram 'n Jam stud game

Everyone,


I would like your thoughts on how (or even if) to play in a ram 'n jam stud game. Last Saturday, I was playing in such a game. The game was $2-$10 spread limit. Over 50% of hands were getting put to between 30 and 40 bucks on 3rd street. The game was like this for about four hours, in which time I won only one hand and managed to lose $250 dollars, my worst lost in seventy sessions. So, I need your advice:


First, what hands do you play in this type of game? (BTW, the game has no ante and a mere $2 bring-in.)


I played considerably fewer hands than usual. I had buried aces twice, which forced me into the pot (with others doing the raising). Another time, I let go of split Ks on 3rd street but released them when I saw my other two Ks out, because you had to improve to win in this game. Am I locked into playing conservatively until I hit a monster hand? With aces, do I fold if one of my aces is out, or even if my kicker is not suited?


One hand I severely misplayed, I think, was a pair of Ts. I had a suited 9 kicker, but the suit was pretty dead. Should I even have been in with live TT9?


I know there is a section on this type of game in HEPFAP. The authors write that you should lock down to AA, KK, or AKs in a ram 'n jam hold 'em game. How do you guys think this applies to stud? Should I just be playing rolls, three straight flushes, and three to a royal? I find it very difficult to muck aces when they are surely the best hand; they must still show some profit, but deviation will be great and you could loss your ass in one sitting.


Thanks for any suggestions. For now, I hope not to see any of these games in the near future. Take care.


Mike

Michael,


I would leave the game you describe for the maniacs and the gambling types and try to play a game with less deviation.


If you do choose to play in a game such as this ( no ante, small bring in ) then play only the highest of pairs with straightflush kickers, and very big flush draws. Trash everything else.... Then YOU make it EXPENSIVE for the weaker hands and draws to beat you. The one nice thing about a spread-limit structure such as this is you can make it very incorrect for someone to chase you down. This is also a game where I would think the check-raise would be used more often.


Why play anything else? NO ante.... Even the implied odds against those idiots don't make it worthwile. ( assuming the aggressive nature you describe )


Later,


CJ

Even though I typed that two of my Ks were out, I meant that none of my kings were out. I threw away a live pair of kings. Perhaps this was terrible...

Hello,Michael,

If U mucked live K's on 3rd,U are definitely not playing correctly!

Get out the game---fast!

Generally,you need to improve your big pair or otain a live 3-flush or a big live 3-str8. on 4th Str.

If you don't show any improvement on 4th,muck your hand--to continue will be too expensive.

Drawing hands go up in value in this game ,while a pair on 4th go way down in value.

If this game were spread on a regular basis,you would make a lot of money in the long run--if you played it often.

The problem is that a game like you describe is rather rare. The varience is hugh. If you sink,it will take you several weeks to re-coup in a "normal" game.

Playing this type of game is like going into a higher limit game and taking a"shot".

If you lose a session in the higher limit game,you will have to spend several sessions re-couping your losses. in your lower limit game.

Play only those hands that CJ recommends and muck the others.


Happy Pokering,


Sitting Bull

One aspect is that there must be a radically different strategy in this game. I would rather have a three flush like AhQh/9h than a pair of kings.


You should not throw away kings in this game but neither should you raise with them unless it will knock players out, which might rarely be the case. if you are in late position you should rarely raise if ever. just call and see how it comes out on fourth street. You can play more hands than CJ recommends I think, but you must play some of these hands very differently than you would in a normal game.


Pat

Where do they play this game? I like the structure.


I agree with much that has been said, but I can't see not playing big pairs when you can make your opponents call a big bet to draw out on you. One important point: ALWAYS BET THE MAX, ESPECIALLY IN LIVE GAMES. Well, it's not always correct to bet the max, but in a game where you are sure to get callers, bet the max, and if they still won't go, re-raise or check raise to double the bet on them.


I think your mistake is in playing over your head financially. (Just a guess.) You became timid when you should have been popping the pot. Don't let them run you over with weaker hands. Make it twenty to go. Show them you can't be pushed around.


You are right to be concerned that your pairs won't hold up against drawing hands, and you could run into an unlucky streak. Your big pairs, however, may hold up often enough to be profitable, especially if your opponents are playing long-shot draws.


Make'em pay, make'em pay, make'em pay. Thats all for now.

Hello,Pat,

Yes,it's nice to have big live suited cards with the "A".

Unfortunately,this happens very infrequently.

I agree that U should not raise on 3rd--see how U like 4th before being aggressive.

I believe that I would play a completely "live"small 3-flush in this game

I need to quickly muck 4th Str. if I don't extend my flush.


Sitting Bull

I experienced the same feeling at hold'em 10-20 and 15-30 loose tables ( you can see my post under Mid-High stakes Hold'em)--- no way to win ONE session!

Stud is a bit different, you can watch at opponent boards having more control of the hands.


My experience based on tons of hours played at paradise loose 2-4 tables gave me these advices:


Knowing for all situations that you will have a minimum of 4 callers I found that:


- A split big pair with one of your cards out has poor value


The best starting hand from a making money point of view were:


- 3 connected cards with ALL primary cards live and zero-one secondary cards out. (ex: you start with 9-10-J looking at NO Queens nor eights and zero or one sevens or KIngs on the board. I never played 3 connectors below of 7-8-9. If suited all the better.


- 3 small suited cards with all of your cards live is a good starting hand in those tables.


- 3 suited cards with two or three overcards (having live, one or two suited out)


- a hidden pair with all live cards. When you are lucky to catch the trips on 4th or 5th you are in a good shape to win a huge pot. If you don't improve in trips direction fold on 5th.


A split pair of aces with one (or worse two) of your aces out is a losing hand.


The problem is that I'm not sure that this strategy could apply at 2-10 tables. And waiting for those starting hands having the perfect situations it's a boring poker.


Marco

How you adjust to the table depends on what they are showing down as winners. If they are winning big pots with tens and sixes, then your big pairs still have value. If the winners are full houses and flushes, then tighten up.

I was in a very loose game in L.A. where a drunk on my left was raising and reraising every hand and winning! The other players were getting angry and playing tighter. My first hand I threw away Jacks and Tens because I "knew" I was beat. Needless to say, I had the winner.

I adjusted to this ram 'n jam game and left two racks happier. I loosened up and played very aggressive when I was catching cards and folding quickly on fourth or fifth when I didn't. I let the drunk do most of the raising for me. Since he was on my left, he would always bet. Everyone would call him because they didn't respect his bet or raise, then I could pop it if I caught perfect or drop it if I caught blanks. I still played the same cards I always would, except I did not throw away flushes or straights to a raise. Of course, the dead cards make all the difference in your decisions regardless.

Rich,


This game is played at the Greektown Casino in Detroit, where they opened a poker room in November. They also spread a 5-20 spread limit game.


I am not playing above my means financially, and in a normal game, I am usually the only one putting in a decent amount of raises. But in this particular game, making it "twenty to go" had no effect whatsoever; besides, somebody was going to do it behind me, probably in the blind. I was very uncertain how to play in this "showdown" type game, but I greatly appreciate all of the advice. Thanks.


Mike

mucking Aces, split Kings, or even TT9 seems ridiculous. If every hand is going crazy like this then they don't necessarily have anything. play well on the following streets and don't throw away great hands.


incidently, the other 2 Kings being dead makes it harder for them to hit 2 pair as well so it's not necessarily that bad.