10-20 HAND

Played in a great 10-20 game the other day.. Unfortunately my results didn't come out that great however. ( Although I must admit it was mostly my fault. I played horrendously the last few hours after I took a SEVERE beat and gave back $700 in hard earned profits from the previous several hours. Damned tilt/tired factor strook me hard )


Anywho.. here is a hand that developed when I was still 'sane' and I was wondering how the posters here would have played this hand.. ( if at all )


I was forced low with 2c(10cJc). I bring it in for the $3.


Next to act with As is the one player I really respect in the game. He is a rock solid winning player. He completes the bet to $10.


3 cold callers of bet to me. I call.


4th street...

I catch 10s. giving me 10s2c(10cJc)

Everyone else catches apparant rags.

Ace high bets. 2 callers to me and I call.


5th street.

I catch 2s. giving me 2s10s2c(10cJc)

Once again everyone else catches apparant rags..

I am high on board. I bet $20.

Ace raises to $40.

One cold caller to me. I call. ( all my cards are live by-the way )


6th street.

I catch 5c. giving me 5c2s10s2c(10cJc)

And once again everyone else catches blanks.

I am still high on board and bet $20.

Ace thinks about it for a while and folds.

Last opponent calls.


River.


I catch a rag and check. opponent checks. My two pair is good.


All comments are welcomed on this hand please..

Please comment on any street.


Thanks,


CJ

nh, but I think you should've raised on 4th st. Giving the bettor credit for AA you're still a favorite with one pair and the 3 flush. Plush you have the best position. Had you raised there you're bet on 5th probably would'nt have been raised(unless he hit A up on the same card, which clearly he didn't since he folded) and you probably would have got a fold or two.


what did the last opponent have on board that you were concerned about betting your TTup at the river?

Perfect play against a good-solid player


Marco

Angry young man,


I can't remember exactly what his board was, but needless to say it was shit. I remember thinking that when he called on 6th, all he could of had was a backdoor flush draw, or a gutshot. ( possibly had a pair buried in the hole also )


I figured, after showing that much strength, and with him calling the whole way.. If I bet the river AND I GET CALLED I wouldn't have the best hand. ( I of course would have called a river bet from him though )


Later,


CJ

Kind of hard to make comments when yo don't mention dead cards or your opponents door cards.


Seemed like a tough hand in that you never got to act in a way to get it heads up. (which is what youd want on 4th, 5th and 6th).


I don't know who this guy w/the A is who calls on 5th and then folds on 6th.


ALso a pair and 3 flush is not a favorite to an overpair, but w/the money in the pot you would like to get it heads up if you can.

Suspicious,


As didn't call 5th. He raised and I just called.

I bet INTO him AGAIN on 6th...


Other persons cards for this hand weren't really relevant. Other players exposed cards throughout the hand were garbage duplicated cards. If they were relevant boards I would have posted ( and remembered ) them.


"Seemed like a tough hand in that you never got to act in a way to get it heads up. (which is what youd want on 4th, 5th and 6th)."


Your posted comments above are why I posted the hand. ( although on 4th I think an argument can be made for NOT wanting a heads-up pot )


Thanks for your comments,


CJ

I don't get betting into the possible aces-up on 6th street after he had raised you on 5th.

CH...


Now you are bringing up some points with which I wanted to explore with this post.


If you noticed in my original post, I mentioned that this particular player is very good.. Hence he is capable of making a laydown( even a big one ) I also believe that he repects my play, as we have played together on a number of occasions.


The biggest reasons for betting into him were..


1. I very well could of had the best hand and if he only had one pair on 6th he would have checked right behind me if I checked, allowing the FISH behind him a free card.


2. I really wanted money in the pot! Not only due to the fact that I probably had the best hand, but I also had the best draw to go with it.

( I have no problemo betting 2 pair and a four-flush into a probable higher pair.. Especially with another caller )


3. Even if the Ace raises me again. I really don't mind cause THAT raise SHOULD knock the other opponent out, increasing my chances of winning the pot without improvement.


4. By betting into him again, I really am representing trips or a hidden boat. ( even though I am really semi-bluffing ) I am giving him an opportunity to fold and I probably want him too. ( which he did )


I should note that he probably DID have a high pair ( I don't know if it was Aces. I'm actually guessing it was JJ or QQ ) cause I could tell from the expression on his face when I turned my hand over on the river that he was upset he folded.


Later,


CJ

1. OK


2. Ballsey move, OK, but based on the betting you probably didn't (we now know you did) have the best hand at the time, I would have put him on Aces-up.


3. No, a reraise by him would have to be considered at least Aces-up.


4. A re-raise by you on 5th street would be the representing trips bet. If he's as good as you say, then when you waited until 6th street to bet into him he would know the trips semi-bluff was indeed a bluff. If you wanted to knock out the third person, a re-raise on 5th would be where to make that semi-bluff-knock-out play. IMHO, but nice ballsey play, it worked out this time, more power to you.


CH.

CJ,


I disagree with point three. For almost all players, a reraise here would indicate at least aces up. Therefore, a raise knocking out the other play is bad for you. In order for you to win the pot, you are going to have to flush or fill, and either of those hands are almost surely better than the garbage hand the fish is drawing to. Therefore, you want him in there to pay you off on the hand.


If I were playing this hand, I would have reraised on 5th if there was a possibility that the solid player would make this raise with only aces, because he, more than you, has an interest in seeing the fish drops so he can win if he hits aces up. Also, given his laydown on 6th, he might lay it down right there, and you take away his chance to make two pair on 6th, a hand which (I believe) he surely would have called you out with. Of course, the fish apparently called $40 cold on 5th, so he would have called $20 more, but if he is terrible, you can't put him on anything legitimate and want to extract money from him.


The reason I think 5th is a reraise or fold situation is because if your opponent is not capable of making this play with just aces, your hand should have hit the muck.


Also, your 7th street play here is not the play I would have made. Against a total fish, you should pretty much bet any two pair on the river, especially if you are first to act. The only reasons not to do this are if he is likely to bluff-bet with anything if you check (which he did not do) or he is capable of bluff-raising. If neither of these two are the case, bet just about any two small pair, or even a lone high pair, IF he will call you down with a single pair. And if he will not call you down with a single pair, you should frequently bet garbage on the river. If he raises, you chuck your hand.


The reason for doing so is this: If you check to him, he is going to bet any hands that beats tens up. You have stated that you are going to call him, so you will lose all these bets. However, there may be a range of hands that he will call with, but not bet (pair of Ks, 9s and 4s, etc.). He will, however, likely just call with Ks up, but will also bet them if you check. Even though a bet is less correct with the deuces showing (because he is less likely to call with one high pair), I think a bet is almost always correct here, as long as he will only raise with the goods, allowing you to fold. Otherwise, you are only going to be paying him off on the river. Of course, you know the player better than I, so perhaps you had a better judgment.


An added benefit to this type of play on seventh street is that it makes you look foolish if you are up against novices, even though it is often the correct play. If you have ever bet 5s and 4s on the river and gotten called by a worse hand, the table gossip usually centers on how you can bet with 5s up, not how a player can call with a worse hand! If you are tight-agressive, this is one of the few ways you can bet to make yourself look like an action player. But your limits are higher than mine, and the players may be too good for this.


Good luck, hope my comments help.


Mike

Michael,


Thanks for your input here..


In your first paragraph you wrote..


"I disagree with point three. For almost all players, a reraise here would indicate at least aces up. Therefore, a raise knocking out the other play is bad for you."


I agree with this statement in most cases.. However, I believe in this instance I still would have been better off trying to win the pot right there or knocking out another opponent.


In your second paragraph you wrote..


"If I were playing this hand, I would have reraised on 5th if there was a possibility that the solid player would make this raise with only aces, because he, more than you, has an interest in seeing the fish drops so he can win if he hits aces up."


I don't think HE had more of an interest in seeing the fish drop than me, especially with an overpair. I really wanted the pot heads-up at that point.


I do agree with you that a re-raise on 5th would have better represented trips ( and given my opponent an easier opportunity to fold )


You also wrote..


"The reason I think 5th is a reraise or fold situation is because if your opponent is not capable of making this play with just aces, your hand should have hit the muck"


This opponent EASILY could have made this play with just one pair... Any good opponent could have. Wouldn't You?


Finally, I agree with you on the river. You make some excellent points. Given the size of the pot, there were probably several worse hands my opponent could have made that he would have called a bet with.


Thank You again for your responses,


Sincerly,


CJ

"I don't think HE had more of an interest in seeing the fish drop than me, especially with an overpair. I really wanted the pot heads-up at that point."


CJ,


When I stated that he had more of an interest in getting that player out of the pot, I was talking about a player who could only make this play with aces up. Then, he would have more interest in getting some garbage like a gutshot straight draw out of the pot than you, since you are now going to have to improve your hand to a flush or full house to win.


Good response, your thinking is clear.


Mike