Mirage 10-20: Smells like pocket Kings

Here's a hand from a decent 10-20 game at the Mirage today.


The third street boards are:


(x,x)3c

(x,x)7h

(x,x)5d

(x,x)As

(6h,Qc)Qh ME!

(x,x)Jd

(x,x)Tc

(x,x)4s


The 3c brings it in for $1. The 7h folds. The 5d calls. The As calls. I raise with split Queens. Everybody else folds to the 5d who limp-raises. The As folds. I call and it's heads-up heading to 4th street.


The fourth street boards are:


(x,x)5d,Ks

(6h,Qc)Qh,6c ME!


My opponent checks.


What do you think? Pocket Kings? That would make sense because he didn't want to raise into the Ace on his immediate left but would be willing to reraise Queens. Now that he's got trip Kings, he feels safe slowplaying.


I've got conflicting information about this player. First, he raised a lot on third street and would always do it with the highest exposed card. He would often reraise with just a small pair and weak kicker to get a hand heads-up. So, if he had pocket Kings, I'm surprised he didn't raise right into the Ace on his immediate left. He even played rolled-up deuces very fast in a previous hand.


So, how do you want to play my Qs and 6s?

My first guesses would be as follows for his holecards, if he is a tight predictable player.


AA

KK

A5

AdKd

55


In that order. Depends a lot on what your opponent plays like. Theres many guys i know that would turn up with 22-JJ here, not to mention 46, or something like 66 with a two flush.


Raise him and see how he moves, then decide where you go on 5th.


Others will disagree strongly no doubt, but thats the whole idea of a forum.

Hello,Dynasty,

You have live Q's and 6's on 4th. Your opponent checked. Now you want to know how to play your hand???

Jam it,Buddy!

If your opponent has any strength,he'll let you know.

In the meantime,do NOT give any free cards with your hand,please!

Since your opponent is a combination player and it's difficult to put him on a hand,you need to play yours aggressively.

Almost any good player will raise with a big underpair if there is just ONE overcard to his big pair.

However,if there are two overcards,the proper play is NOT to play your big pair aggressively.

If your opponent is a decent player,he does NOT have K's on 3rd!

Why would he risks giving a free card to the "A"?

He's too much of an aggressive player to risk NOT raising with K's on 3rd.

Since he drove rolled-up 2's on 3rd,he would continue to drive any small set. Why not make you pay to try to trip up one of your overpairs??

I'm ruling out a small set and trip K's.


Happy pokering,

Sitting Bull

That game is usually very tight, but there are players who will make some strange plays, mostly travelers from california.


H eshould know that if he has trip lings or aces in the hole he must bet here. since he limp reraised you will put him on a strong hand so you will take a free card if he checks. He would not want to give a free card here so if he had a strong hand he should bet.


He probably has a lower pair in the hole and didnt want to raise with two or three overcards after him, but once everyone folded he reraised to get it heads up. No matter what he has you clearly dont check here unless you know he has trip kings or rolled 5's. Just bet and se what happens, and if you get raised on fifth or checkraised then you can worry. Until then keep firing.


Pat

Dynasty, I have an unrelated, but very interesting (to me) question: I like your posts, but I'm blown away by your ability to recall and reproduce EVERY SINGLE CARD SHOWN in the hand, including all the suits, all the 3rd street doorcards that fold, etc. ad infinitum.


This would be the equivalent of a photographic memory for stud. If you can remember every card played for every hand, you are a 7-stud machine. There has been plenty of discussion on 2+2 on how to remember folded cards, with the last word (from Ray Zee) being that absolute memory for all cards (rank plus suit) is very hard to attain but essential at higher limits.


My question is, how did you develop this wonderful high degree of card memory--or are you just naturally blessed? (The alternative is that I am unnaturally stupid and that *everyone* who plays stud beyond the beginner level remembers all their hands in this amount of detail.)

Some people just have a gift for that kind of thing. I don't. I win about $20/hr playing $6/12 stud, and I have trouble remembering the cards. Anyway, Dynasty could just make up the parts he doesn't remember when they don't really influence the play of the hand. /images/wink.gif


Doc AZ has made some excellent posts recently about memorizing upcards in stud, including a couple this month. You can set your preferences to show the last couple of months worth of posts to find them. He also had some excellent posts on the subject in the Other Games forum before stud got its own forum.


There isn't a hand that Dynasty's opponent can have that I would play the way he has, granting that I almost never limp-reraise unless I'm the bring-in. It's true that he may have a set, but I'd say it's likely that he's on something else. I'm inclined to keep betting until I see a good reason not to.

I'd bet right into him. there are a lot of candidate hands here, trip Ks aren't the probably read yet.


If he raised I'd certainly call; if I was feeling feisty I might even re-raise then fold to a 4-bet, since at that point I'd be sure he has at least kings up.

I've always found it easy to remember my own cards and the cards of my main opponent(s). I don't know why.


Depending on what my hand is, I remember certain things better. If I'm playing a flush draw, then I remember the suits out very well, particularly my flush suit. In the 15-30 Bellagio hand I recently posted, I had a diamond draw and my main opponent had a heart draw (which I thought was a good possibility on 4th). Therefore, the main tards I was looking for were diamonds and hearts and this sticks in my mind later.


If I'm playing a big pair, then I remember my pair cards, including kickers, very well. In this hand, I was on the lookout for any Qs or 6s starting on 3rd street. I also tend to remember any overcards to my big pairs so that's why I easily remember the Ace to my right and that there were no King doorcards.


But, Andy has something right. When a 2 brings it in for a $1 and I can only remember that it was a black deuce, I'll just throw a c or s for completeness. The hand would look silly if some of the cards had suits but others didn't. However, any information which is relevent to the play of the hand should be accurate.

The fourth street boards are:


(x,x)5d,Ks

(6h,Qc)Qh,6c ME!


When my opponent checked to me, I bet my Queens-up despite a suspicion that he may have trip Kings. He simply called.


The fifth street boards are:


(x,x)5d,Ks,8d

(6h,Qc)Qh,6c,2s ME!


My opponent checked again on 5th street. I bet and this time my opponent check-raised me. Now, I'm really suspicious that he has trip Kings. However, He also has caught a card that's the same suit as his doorcard.


Any thoughts?


Full results later tonight.

Quote:


The fourth street boards are:


(x,x)5d,Ks

(6h,Qc)Qh,6c ME!


Then at the end:


So, how do you want to play my Qs and 6s?

I think you have to put him on a starting pair to explain his actions on third street, unless you know something about him that you're not telling us. With no pair or with trips, he probably would not have reraised on third.


I'm okay with the bet on fourth, even though I find his check extremely suspicious. A lot of 10-20 level players will automatically bet scare cards on 4th, whether they should or not, so when he doesn't bet my stink-o-meter alarm goes off. After all, your board looks like cheese, and the K is a huge card in this situation.


One possible explanation, however, is that he has read you for queens (who wouldn't), knows you can't be pushed off by a routine scare-card bet, and has something like [A5]5K where he figures he has to outdraw you. That would explain the strong betting on third followed up by a check on fourth.


However, you don't find too many 10-20 players who are good enough to then check-raise one of these hands on 5th to sell you on the idea that he was trapping with something like [K5]5K8 or [KK]5K8. So I think you should play the percentages here, put him on the hand he's representing, and fold. You're not getting the pot odds to keep going with what is likely a 4-outer. Even in the unlikely case that you're ahead on fifth, you're up against a draw for an overpair. So in the long haul, you don't figure to lose much if anything by folding.


By the way, I think you erred on third by not popping him back. You figure to have the best hand here, and especially since you've already seen him make isolation raises with relatively weak hands, you should make the value reraise to get his money in the pot.


TRLS

Queens and sixes?

I'm thinking either KKK, 555, or 5d6d7d that just became an open-ended straight flush draw.

Yes, Queens and sixes. I should have wrote it out. Sorry.

The fifth street boards are:


(x,x)5d,Ks,8d

(6h,Qc)Qh,6c,2s ME!


So, I got checkraised on fifth street. I don't really know what the meant. I hadn't considered the possibility of (6d,7d)5d,Ks,8d which Nakor suggested. However, I wondered if my opponnet had pocket queens. This may have been influenced by a recnet Hold'em hand I had where I held KK against KK. And of course, the possibility of at least Kings-up was in my mind. Since, I couldn't get a good enough read, I decided to call down.


I called the check-raise on fifth street.


The sixth street boards are:


(x,x)5d,Ks,8d,Jc

(6h,Qc)Qh,6c,2s,6d ME!


/images/biggrin.gif Then again, you have to be willing to change your plans.


I check. He bets. And it's my turn to checkraise. He called and looked rather upset.


I never looked at my river card. I bet blind. He called. I turned over my full-house (can't remember the river card) and it was good. He mucked so I'll never know what he had.

>>


You are right , but there is also the fact that even if a 10-20 player was good enough to think of this, most opponents willnot even recognize it if you make this play.


Pat

Can I ask why you bet blind on 7th? Not necessarily criticizing, just curious.

I was going to bet regardless of what river card I got.


If I got a total blank, I would bet my full-house.


If I actually improved, with a Q or 6, I would bet my bigger full-house or quads.


I bet blind on the river a lot when I know I'm going to bet no matter what card I receive. I tried to start a thread about this a week ago but nobody responded.

Hello,Lin,

If the "5d" re-raised Dynasty's Q's,he might have 5K5 and is looking for a free card on 4th.

However,he could also have KK5 or 555 at this point.

Hence,a call is better than a re-raise by Dynasty. The odds favor a call and not a re-raise.

Sitting Bull