Would someone remind me that boats are good? [Archive]

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Nottom

10-23-2004, 12:09 PM

Typical party 5/10 table:

Opponents in this hand are of the loose passive variety preflop (UTG actually has a PFR% of 0), both are a little on the passive side, but aren't afraid of raising with top pair.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, CO raises, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (14.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, CO raises, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB
Main Pot: 20.50 BB, between CO, Hero and UTG.

Please smack me for how I played this hand.

Your Mom

10-23-2004, 12:20 PM

At least 3 bet the turn. Since you wanted me to smack you, I will at least tell you that this is awful. You have to put someone on exactly JT, JJ, or TT for you to be behind on the turn. This is the definition of weak-tight. You have a boat, damn it. Go nuts with it.

Danenania

10-23-2004, 03:39 PM

I don't want to be weak-tight but I can understand your hesitance in this hand. A passive opponent capping a flop of JT2r is pretty scary and that's not a good turn card. Is there any way he could cap the flop with AJ-QJ? If not then it's hard to justify doing any raising.

I'm interested to see what people in favor of 3-betting the turn put CO on.

MAxx

10-23-2004, 06:24 PM

i would have 3bet the flop, doesnt really look like a good flop to slowplay.

Edit: I would have lead and 3-bet/capped if given the opportunity.

the way you played it, i would have 3-bet the turn... and see how thangs develop from there.

Nottom

10-23-2004, 06:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]

the way you played it, i would have 3-bet the turn... and see how thangs develop from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there no benefit to calling and keeping UTG in the pot, while minimizing my losses to a better hand?

MAxx

10-23-2004, 07:12 PM

Well, I would not say flat out no benefeit.

I just don't think we should be so quick to give credit to exactly JT, TT, or JJ. It sounds like they could be doing this with AJ, KJ, QJ, and maybe other J's. Not sure about other things, probably not against these guys.

Isn't the pot big enough on the turn, that we are most interested in taking it down right there if we can (or do what is in our power to do so)and not so interested in keeping people in. We don't really want to give a J-9 or any J they could be playing a relatively cheaper fill up.

I hear your vision, and think it has merit. I don't claim to be more knowlegeable in these matters than you.

I think the flop play was the biggest issue.

I prefer to play it faster on the flop, pop turn. And maybe exercise some caution on river if they are still coming at me. And of course, folding is not an option (but you dont need to be told that)

Trix

10-24-2004, 11:11 AM

I usually bet the flop and 3bet if raised. I think you should go through with the check-raise as its kinda neat to be representing TP when you have a set :P
3bet the turn and take it from there?, isnt it a bit early to put one of them on JT often enough to not 3bet?
I dont think I would have 3bet the river.

Nottom

10-24-2004, 03:50 PM

I prolly should have bet the flop and raised the turn/flop. I didn't want to 3-bet the flop becasue i wanted people to stay in, of course that's a mistake since the board has 2 broadway cards.

On the turn, I thought there was a reaonable chance I was behind and didn't want UTG to fold a hand that could easily be drawing to 3 outs at best if he doesn't have a J in which case he will prolly raise again based on the flop action. I figured the call and bet the river line would be the most likely to get him to call all the bets with a weakish hand.

As it turned out, I was ahead on the turn but the river 9 filled up COs J9. UTG had AA and so its up in the air as to whether he would have folded to a 3-bet on the turn or not.

Danenania

10-24-2004, 07:13 PM

Sounds like CO may have been more on the agressive side than passive side postflop for capping that flop.

Nottom

10-24-2004, 08:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like CO may have been more on the agressive side than passive side postflop for capping that flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it caught me by surprise as well. Other than this hand, he wasn't at all what I would consider a LAG.