Was this the right call?

Normally I'm just a forum railbird but this hand I played in a $2-$10 spread limit game really has me wondering if I made the right play.


The bring-in is 2 players to my right, a king (a VERY passive player) calls, I have (AhTh) Ad and raise $2 (all my cards are completely live.) A queen (played by a VERY drunk player who had been betting nothing the whole night) re-raised an additional $5. The king calls and I make the capping raise of an additional $10. Both the queen and king call. On fourth the king catches an offsuit 6, I catch a black 8, and the queen catches another queen. He comes out betting $10, the king calls, what would you guys do here?


Just one other note...the player with the king will easily marry his large pair, in fact I had seen him get very attached to much lesser hands the whole night. So, at best I think he has Ks up and very possibly quite a bit less.

this seems like an easy fold if you think the K's will only call here with a hand that can beat q's up. But if you think that the drunk player might not have three queens then you probably should raise and try to knock the K's out. Most times you should fold.


Pat

I wouldn't have made a $2 raise on third. Depending on just how drunk the drunk was, I would have raised at least $6 (to $8). If I think he'll call no matter how much I raise, I'd have made it $12 to go. I'd like to be heads up with the drunk when I'm holding aces. A max raise might get the bring-in and limper to fold, especially if the drunk reraises to $22. If there was a .50 ante in this game, that would be even more reason to get aggressive on third.


If you can't bring yourself to make a bigger raise, then I think you're better off limping in and hoping someone raises behind you so you can reraise the max.


TRLS

Hello,First,

I put the Q's on a set on 4th. Hence,I would fold this hand.

Even if you make a mistake by folding,it will not be a big mistake.

However,if you call the paired doorcard all the way and he,in fact,has trips,you will have committed a major compound error.


Happy Pokering,

Sitting Bull

Hello,Lin,

A 2 buck raise is like giving a free play.

Almost any 3-card draw will stay in for that.

Even if one wins 1 buck,better then risking several BB.

Sitting Bull

Is this the Harrahs East Chicago 2-10 game? If so then God only knows what those two crazys have.


Seriously though, I'd re-raise(20 more if there's a 4th st. rule), especially if you believe the K guy could be stuck on his Kings. the Q guy could have anything and a 10 dollar bet is pretty much required when you pair your door after raising. if he doesn't relent and you don't improve maybe you can muck them, but I hate to pay off someone like this by folding the best hand.


by the way I would've made it $12 on 3rd.

The Angry Young Man puts it well when he describes the players as Crazies. The Queen crazy agressive, and the king, crazy calling (At one point during the session I heard the king say "If you can beat what they have on the board you have to call.") And no this game wasn't in Chicago. It was in a small town called Deadwood in South Dakota. Also, at this table, someone informed me I shouldn't have raised w/a pair of 10s on third to thin down the field because it wasn't a good idea mathmatically. I try to play as fishy as I can...but it was hard to keep my mouth shut on that one. But I digress. Here's what I did, why, and how it turned out.


I agree I should have raised the max $10 on 3rd. I'm about 95% sure the king would have called. I called on 4th. I think that was the 3rd best decision. I called because I thought there was about a 50% chance the Qs had trips, but I knew that even if I caught another open ace they would both pay me off. If I just caught 2 pair and the 2 pair stood up, then I stood to earn a decent pot but I may also have to pay off 4 more $10 bets. I guessed roughly that I was risking $40 to win $110. (The king wouldn't raise unless he was full, and then, only maybe.) So at the time I asked myself quickly, "Is your chance of making 2 pair *.5 + the chance of making trips greater than 4/11? I can't figure odds that fast in my head, so I did what 7CSFAP says in the section on loose games and just called quickly so my opponents didn't think I was actually capable of thought. After simulating 250,000 I find that I make 2 pair 42.2% of the time and I make trips 9.9% of the time. The scenario included the Ks having 2 pair on 4th and the queen having trips. So, taking 42.2*.5+9.9 you get 31%...which is about 5% less than 4/11. So, I probably should have given it up on 4th (Although if I had caught my 3rd ace on the river, I would get an extra bet in. I didn't take this into my calculations.) However a raise would have put a lot of pressure on the queens although I'm guessing he would've reraised, even w/just 2 Qs, and the Ks MAY have folded to the double bet. This would've given me a better chance to win if I was going to play, so raising would be better than calling w/folding being the best play.


Anyways, I called on 4th, 5th, caught open aces on 6th, they both called my bet, and made Aces full of 8s on the river. I showed it down and the Qs mucked, the K showed Ks and 6s like I should feel lucky I was able to beat him. I asked the Qs if he had a set on 4th he responded that he didn't remember. And not the cocky "I don't remember" from Rounders, but more of a I'm so drunk all I know is that I lost $60 and I can't even remember the hand I held "I don't remember." I'm doubting he had a set...but I guess I'll never know.


Thank you all for your input, I'll try and post something that will stir a little more debate next time.

You're description of the "I don't remember" was very funny!


If you thought there was a 50% the Q's had trips, that would be a very easy fold. There are 3 people playing and half the time one of them will beat you over 90% of the time.