2 Hands I lost.

These are two similar hands I lost in the same 20 stud game at Commerce Casino.


Hand 1.


I raised first in, in late position with K,9/K. The last player to act, a tight aggresive solid player, cold call two bets with xx/Tc and we took fouth street heads up.


Fourth street. K,9/K,9 vs xx/Tc,Js. Betting: Bet,raise,reraise,reraise,reraise,call. At this point for some unknown reason other than the fact I was stuck and steaming I put this guy on two pairs and two pairs only. Fifth street: K,9/K,9,x vs xx/Js,Tc,7h. Bet, call. Sixth street:K,9/K,9,x,x vs xx/Js,Tc,7h,7d. My opponent bet. I called the river was checked. He won with Aces up.


Hand 2. I was in late position with. As,9h/Ks. The bring and two limpers to me: xx/Jh and xx/x. I called and the next player called and 5 of us saw 4th street. On fourth street I paired my king and bet. Everyone folded except the Jh who called with xx/Jh,6s. The fith street boards weree A,9/K,K,9 vs xx/Jh,6s,x. Bet and call. Sixth street: A,9,/K,K,9,x vs x,x/Jh,6s,xKh. Bet and call. I caught a blank on the river and checked. My opponent bet and won the show down with Aces and Kings.


Vince

In the second hand, I would have folded on third street. Wouldn't have gone further, period.

On the second hand i would have folded. generally i think the best time to play these hands is first in for a raise and hope to steal. if i were a better player i might consider playing it more often, as it is a very tricky hand to play. Another reason to raise is that when you do catch the scare card you will almost always get better hands to fold. If you mostly raise coming in with high pairs and you do pair up your better opponents will know that you do not have trips.

But you know this already.


Pat

it is possible that he had AK/J and still called on fourth street. he has one of the K's and vince did not raise so he probably does not have trips. This is at least a possibility.


But,many players limp with a pair of aces hoping to slowplay. whether it is right or wrong the fact is that players do it so it is something to be aware of,and it is not that much of a surprise that the A's only called especially since both were in the hole.


Pat

If Vince raises with a King in the door, and the other guy now raises showing a Ten he's basically announcing that he has pocket Aces. I frequently will wait until fourth street to raise myself.

or he is saying that he doesnt believe vince has K's, and against a good player he might be right since I am sure vince raises with a k in the door often when he does not have k's. This is why it is often a bigger mistake to not raise, even if someone puts you on a pair of aces as a possible hand. you give up a lot of edge needlessly. of course there are other factors but tomake it a routine strategy to not raise with aces is probably a mistake.


Pat

Actually, I would reraise much of the time with:


(AA) T

(TA) T, if everthing is live.

(AsXs) Ts, if everything's live

and even (TT) T sometimes.


I think you need to play the big pairs strong once someone opened, if there is a chance 3rd parties will enter the pot.


Dan Z.

When you say you reraise these hands against a K door card, do you mean against anyone, or against a 'tricky' player who might have a whole range of hands below the K?


Would you reraise the middle two hands (TA)T, (AX) Ts if you were confident that the K had a pair of K's?

If I were confident, as in more than 50% but less than 100%, then I would reraise against most players.


With the (TA) T, or (AA) T, I can't think of any player I would not reraise in a moderate to big ante game, or if reraising would knock out limpers. The A-high 3 flush also, it doesn't matter if the player has kings, esp. if I won't get 3 bet or can take a free card later if I want.


I would reraise some lesser hands against a maniac, or a likely stealer, but that wasn't exactly the topic.


Dan Z.

Hand 1: Believe it or not, you probably should have folded to the second raise on fourth. Very few players would put in the second raise without at least aces up - with bare aces or two pair lower than kings, the typical player will call your reraise. The player who would make it four bets with bare aces or an inferior two pair is in a minority, but even so, that player will often have the better hand, so you're not losing much by folding.


If you can't bring yourself to lay down kings up, then at least call the second raise on fourth rather than popping it again, and await developments on fifth.


Hand 2: If you're going to play this hand at all, you have to raise, because (1) this sort of hand doesn't like a lot of company, and you need to try to isolate yourself against the two limpers; (2) you will have more leverage on fourth and fifth if you plant the suggestion now that you have two kings; and (3) you don't want to be one of those players who gives away his hand according to whether he raises or calls when he has a big door card.


However, I think that in games with low to middling antes, you should just muck this hand when there are already two limpers, especially if a raise is unlikely to get anybody out. The case for playing the hand is stronger in high-ante games.


TRLS