General B&M Etiquette Question

[bconway6]

I have been hearing many players suggest that it is good practice to not look at your hole cards until it is your turn to act.
I realize this guarentees not giving away your future intentions, which is a good thing, and it also keeps any ambiguities out of the chop or not decision. I understand this decision is not made hand by hand, but as a general "yes I chop" or "no I dont chop". Thats to be discussed somewhere else though.
My problem with the not looking at your cards is that the games are slow enough at the lower limits as it is. Is it not in your best interest to act as fast as possible to get more hands played?
I understand at higher limits the game moves faster on its own due to competant players who at least know the rules. Also at these higher limits the telegraphing of your action before you act can be a big problem. Whereas the lower limit players are not going to notice or know to look and will miss it anyway.
So my question is; Does the decision to not look at your cards until its your turn to act apply to lower limit games? If so, what makes this a good move?

[Ghazban]

I don't think it applies to low-limit games at all. From what I've seen at 5/10 and under tables, the vast majority of players are not paying any attention to what other players are doing or how they're playing. As long as you don't jump up and down in your seat every time you're dealt a big hand, small physical tells of what you're holding will be totally ignored by the rest of the table.

I can't stand players holding up the game, either, so I strongly encourage looking at your cards as soon as you get them and having at least a good idea of if you're going to call, fold, or raise.

[k8as8ey]

It's a good habit to get into. Most low limit players aren't paying attention to you. But since preflop is fairly automatic, it's good practice for when you move up.

[haakee]

Waiting until your turn to look at your cards is a good way to force yourself to observe the other players at the table as they check their hole cards.

[smoore]

Yeah, that's not for the other player's benefit, that's for your benefit. I learn a *lot* about the players at my table from preflop action, and usually there's *no one* else looking around, so no one even sees me do it.
If you're going to do this, be damn sure that you're acting very promptly when it is your turn to act or people will catch on to what you're doing. If you look quickly and then act in a reasonable amount of time they tend to think you're just "re-checking" your cards (most of them have to) and the whole thing just kind of blends into the rhythm of the game. If someone does catch on to the fact that I'm watching everyone preflop I'll start checking my cards one at a time, as soon as I get them. I like to at least think that I'm sneaky /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[bigfishead]

what is the problem? takes 2 secs or less to look and act when it is your turn. In the meantime you get to watch others.

[alittle]

I usually have my cards ready ahead of time and peek as the player to my right is looking. Since it is hard to look right at them anyway, I watch out of the corner of my eye and take quick peek at my hand. Seems to balance the "wait to act" with the "don't slow it down" camp. I try to keep my hands in the same position after peeking so I don't telegraph a fold or "chip reach", and only make a move after they are done.

[RydenStoompala]

Advantage of seeing the reaction of others as they looked at their hole cards in the last low limit game I was in: .0001%

Advantage of seeing the reaction of players as they examined their hole cards in the last $30-$60 that I was in: 0.0%

Chance of being verbally or physically slapped if you look at your cards and then "make a move" like you'll muck or toss in chips in a middle limit or upper limit game: 100%.

Wait until it's your turn before peeking if you want, but that's not the point. Wait until it's your turn to BET or FOLD, or to ACT like you may bet or fold. That's what's important.

[smoore]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually have my cards ready ahead of time and peek as the player to my right is looking.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a great idea, I'm afraid I telegraph with my hands when everyone is looking at my action.

[slavic]

When I started chopping, I stopped looking at my hole cards in the blinds. If a chop came up I just did it and didn't want to know what the hand was. I hate the player that flips up aces and begs for sympathy. It now is just a habit, I watch the action with no bias as to what I hold and it seems to work for me. Also I'm quite a bit faster at this than most players in their normal action. True I can't beat the guy who's been holding his cards out to fold waiting for the action to reach him, but he's a jerk anyway.

Oh and UTG I often have my hand mucked before the second card reaches me. If the first card is bad no sense in seeing the next one, that first one isn't getting any better.

[jmark]

Are you talking about low limits like 3/6? I heard someone say once "Don't bother trying to figure out what they have -- they barely even know what they have. Just play your cards"

I would rather be ready to act right away than look like WPT wannabe boy.

[SofaCoach]

[ QUOTE ]
I would rather be ready to act right away than look like WPT wannabe boy.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this. I look at my cards immediately then observe the other players. Also, many hands I will play differently based on the action before me....like Ax suited or small pocket pairs for example, in EP, after a raise, or very few limpers I muck, mid-late after a few limpers I limp and in CO or button I may raise after several limpers. Having looked at my cards I know ahead of time how the action is going to effect my play.

Regarding the tells, I try to behave the same way with AA as I do with 7-2. I NEVER protect my cards with a chip prior to the action getting to me, nor do I touch or look at my chips. I hold my cards in the same manner every hand. I may have a few minor tells but not any big ones, so I think I'm ok at low limits.

Keep the game moving fella's.

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you talking about low limits like 3/6? I heard someone say once "Don't bother trying to figure out what they have -- they barely even know what they have. Just play your cards"

I would rather be ready to act right away than look like WPT wannabe boy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well said. And the quote you included is absolutely true.

[k8as8ey]

I think some people are missing the point. If you plan on staying in the low limit games, it makes no difference at all. If you plan on moving up then try to develop good habits. Bad habits are very hard to break. At 30/60, you may not gain any information by watching other players, but remember, they're looking at you. At that level, players amke a living at this game. You may not see anything for several rounds, but it only takes once or twice. Think of it as an exercise in discipline.