big slick - flop two pair and lose...

[asofel]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Table is LAG, but read on villain is that if he hits, he'll bet/raise instead of just overcalling.

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB <font color="purple">(villain)</font> calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Plenty of action as usual. Good so far?

Flop: (12.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">villain bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">villain caps</font>, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Hero calls.

Great flop...until i see villain cap...he's not a complete moron, so I figure he's got pocket 2's. Stupid assumption?

Turn: (12.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">villain bets</font>, Hero calls.


Big mistake here right?

River: (14.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">villain bets</font>, Hero calls.

Same here, although that club doesn't look so good..

Final Pot: 16.25 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 16.25 BB, between villain and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by villain (16.25 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
villain has 6c 4c (flush, king high).
Hero has Ac Kd (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: villain wins 16.25 BB. </font>

I don't think a raise on the turn would have done anything against this player in particular, but this is still an atrocious hand...advice/flames/laughter all welcome and obviously needed /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[John Deere]

I would have likely put him on a flush draw before putting him on a flopped set. I'm probably still raising this turn and folding to a 3-bet. Doesn't seem likely that he has KK based on pre-flop action, and I doubt he would cap the flop with the gutshot straight draw.

[bdk3clash]

Preflop good, flop good. Raise the turn, after that it's a different hand. I would have also just called the river if I had just called the turn.

I am not putting him exactly on a set of 2s at any point, but then again I read the results. Don't include them next time.

[realbad101]

I can't see laying this hand down. After the flop cap, it could be argued you should still raise the turn. There's now way I would have put villain on a club draw. He really misplayed this hand. You got sucked out on and by slowing down after the flop you saved yourself some bets. Maybe after the flop you could consider this a drawing hand to a boat. Then call the last bet 'cause the pots so big. 80% of the time you are thanking villain for his misplay here.

[Rico Suave]

asofel:

[ QUOTE ]
but this is still an atrocious hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure what you think is atrocious here. You flopped a strong hand, your opponent flopped a strong draw. You went to war, and he got there.

FWIW, I would probable stick another raise in on the turn, but I wouldn't call not doing so "atrocious."

--Rico

[JeffO]

Raise the turn. A lot of 2/4 players will misplay there flush draws like this and even if he did have a set you have 4 outs. Since you just called the turn I guess calling the river is OK.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have likely put him on a flush draw before putting him on a flopped set. I'm probably still raising this turn and folding to a 3-bet. Doesn't seem likely that he has KK based on pre-flop action, and I doubt he would cap the flop with the gutshot straight draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero has the A/images/graemlins/club.gif so that would be a very aggressive turn bet by an unpaired flush draw. Hero also has 4 outs and would have to call the 3-bet.

The most likely hands seem to be A2s or 22. I'd probably play it the same. I wouldn't like my hand too much if he 3-bets the turn and you only gain one more BB when you are ahead of A2s and he calls you down.

[Bill Smith]

You can't let beats like this bother you.

I would've raised the turn and called down from there, but keep in mind villian would have been correct to call it. He was also probably correct calling preflop and betting and raising the flop.

I suggest picking up a copy of SSHE or searching old threads if you don't understand why this is.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have likely put him on a flush draw before putting him on a flopped set. I'm probably still raising this turn and folding to a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bah! Call down if this happens.

If you raise and get 3-bet, the pot has 17.25 BBs and you have top two pair and four outs to Aces full of Kings and Kings full of Aces.

Between the chance you're ahead and your redraw if you're not, you should call the turn and then the river even if you "miss" based on the pot size.

Folding to a turn 3-bet would be a serious error.

EDIT: I'm capping this turn, actually.

[realbad101]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't let beats like this bother you.

I would've raised the turn and called down from there, but keep in mind villian would have been correct to call it. He was also probably correct calling preflop and betting and raising the flop.

I suggest picking up a copy of SSHE or searching old threads if you don't understand why this is.

[/ QUOTE ]


Capping the flop and betting the turn are both mistakes on the villains part. Raising once for a free card = good. Capping = bad. Betting the turn he needs 4 callers to make it right. Sure he's getting 2 callers on the flop, but he's not drawing to the nut flush and no real straight possibilities.

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
You can't let beats like this bother you.

I would've raised the turn and called down from there, but keep in mind villian would have been correct to call it. He was also probably correct calling preflop and betting and raising the flop.

I suggest picking up a copy of SSHE or searching old threads if you don't understand why this is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, losing it doesn't bother me so much as the feeling that I must have misplayed it poorly..but looking at it again, and seeing others comments, I guess it wasn't as bad as it seemed, and of course it'll happen.

Got my copy of SSHE about a week ago and slowly making my way through it. I can understand his play looking back on it now from his point of view, and the general level at the table.

[MoreWineII]

I think villian's flop cap was way overboard.

[Rubeskies]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising once for a free card = good.

[/ QUOTE ]

The villain cannot raise for a free card because he does not have position. Villain was in the BB for this hand and the agressor (hero) is yet to act.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
I think villian's flop cap was way overboard.

[/ QUOTE ]
If his read is that UTG+1 and CO were likely to call (and they usually are at this level) then it's fine, since he'd be getting 3:1 on his flop action with a flushdraw.

UTG+1's raise-then-fold-for-two-more is pretty rare, so most of the time at worst he's getting 2:1 on his flush draw, which isn't terrible. As it ended up, his cap just forced out the players he'd probably like sticking around so it ended up sucking.

If I were him I would have checked and possibly checkraised depending on the flop action. If I had bet out I would not have capped.

[MoreWineII]

Flop: (12.50 SB) K, 2, A (6 players)
villain bets, UTG+1 raises, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, villain caps, UTG+1 folds, CO folds, Hero calls.

I think villian's orig. bet was ok. He probably figured some people would call, hero would raise, and he'd have a few people trapped in the pot in case he hit his baby flush. But by capping against what he's got to figure now is AA, KK, or AK with his mediocre hand, he's making it awfully hard for CO to call.

With a baby flush draw and no other outs, I don't really want to put in extra bets, force other players out, and get HU vs. what appears to be a very strong hand.

[HajiShirazu]

I haven't read the results, but please man, at least raise the turn. That's just brutal.

[asofel]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read the results, but please man, at least raise the turn. That's just brutal.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, that's the biggest mistake I saw looking back on it quickly. I think i'm too weak sometimes and forget that most people don't have as nearly good hands as I'd put them on when small stakes/party/empire

[StellarWind]

When I see the flop cap I think AK/A2/K2/22/flush draw.

Given that hand range I think you need to raise the turn and call a reraise.

I don't see what's so terrible about capping the flop. Each of his three opponents has already put at least two bets in and two of those players have raised. Why should he expect folds?

Remember that he has a six-high draw. Anyone who would fold because of the cap has little value anyway and maybe it's good riddance. They won't call the turn unless they improve. If he turns his flush then any weak hand that just improved by picking up a flush draw, making two pair, or spiking a set would be very unwelcome.

[MoreWineII]

I'm sure you're right about my overstating the badness (?) of the flop cap. It's not a play I'd make however, for the reasons I stated earlier and that I'd feel awkward on the turn about what action to take. Maybe I'm underestimating the power of a baby flush here but I'd hate to put a bunch of big bets into this pot with an un-made hand knowing that some of my outs might be unclean.

W-T? Possibly.