1st Session--some questions

Hey Studs,


I usually only play hold 'em but I had some extra $$ and felt like a change of pace so I took a seat in a 1-4 Stud (.50 ante and $1 bring-in) game at Muckleshoot Casino outside Seattle on Saturday. I had a few questions.


When should you be happy with the dead $ and when should you let some people in for 4th street. I know this is very general but I am just looking for some general advice.


For example, one hand I had JQ/Q, someone brought it in for one, one caller, I made it 4 and everyone folded. (my Q was highest card showing). Was this raise correct?


I tried something different when I had 6A/A and was last to act before 4th. Everyone just called the bring-in so I did too. Then 2 people paired there door cards, one bet the max and the other called. I folded. Was this too tight? Should I have made it $4 on 3rd to take control of the hand?


Lastly, one of the hardest hands for me was one where I was the bring-in with 62/2 and caught a 6 on 4th for 62/26. Checked to me, I bet $4 on 4th, two callers, both with unpaired high cards. I catch a blank on 5th but bet $4 again, only to be called by one guy with 3 unpaired cards, not looking super straight or flush. I suspect he is on one pair and has me pegged for just about exactly what I have. Do I keep betting? He must have about 12 outs to beat me now, depending on the live-ness of his cards. Any advice on these baby 2 pairs?


Thanks.


KJS

baby two pairs are horrible hands. You did the right thing -- hit it early and hope they fold. If they don't and the pot is small, you may have to do the folding if they bet the max on fifth. If they are aggressive and would do this with just one pair and your pair cards are live, you could call but it's a crying call IMHO

Thanks MRB. I thought that was the right course. Thankfully my opponent was very weak--he showed down A High losers 4 times in an hour. We checked it down and my hand was good.


KJS

On the Q's hand I would raise the max and take the money. Give your opponents a chance to make a mistake by calling a max raise.


I would also raise to the max with your split A's. Once again give people the chance to make the mistake in this case of folding their drawing hands or multiway hands. If they all fold so be it. There will be plenty of times that they will call with weaker hands and your raise gets more money in the pot as the favorite.

A .50 ante in a 1-4 game is huge - that's $4 in antes on a full table! If you win only the antes 2-3 times an hour, you'll have a nice hourly rate for this limit.


TRLS

I thought so too. I was not prepared for antes at all. Thought I could play rock tight, watch the action and only get involved with very good hands. All the dead money made me get involved more than I anticipated but the competition was not very good so I cashed a nice win.


KJS

I thought everyone would say to raise in both cases. The Aces hand was just an experiment. I thought I might come in cheap, get the first action on 4th and get a nice checkraise in. The two people pairing foiled my plan. Next time I'll take the antes or try to get it heads up against a worse hand. Thanks.


KJS

The structure of this game certainly makes raising the "right" play. But if there is one thing many players will notice, it's how you open your big pairs, so you'll want to occaisonally wait to raise with aces, kings or queens to give someone observant a surprise and not let them put you on starting hands by your betting. I recently limped with an ace and got big value when I caught a second ace on fifth street. My opponent called with two pair to the river, obviously thinking I might be on a draw since I would have raised with aces on 3rd.

Hi again, Vinny. /images/smile.gif


I'll preface this by saying that I've never played in a spread-limit game. I have played a fair amount of $2/4 stud with a $.50 ante, which is probably very similar to this.


I'd be happy stealing the antes in this game with anything that wasn't rolled-up trips. That's some ante, and I'm sure this game is raked at 10%. If you steal the antes, there's no rake and you don't have to feel guilty about not toking, right?


You should certainly raise with your (QJ)Q. Even if this raise fails to thin the field, this hand does OK multi-way because of the straight possibility. If you were sure that you wouldn't knock anyone out, you might be happier limping and seeing what develops.


On your (A6)A hand, my default action is to limp right along with everyone else and hope I can get a raise in later. There's a lot on this in the loose games section in 7CS4AP (buy the 21st century edition, even if you have the old edition). A raise on third street isn't likely to drop much of anybody. You're certainly not going to "take control of the hand." Limping also adds some deception to your game. Many people will think that you have anything but a pair of Aces. Once two people hit their door cards, I think you have to go out. This is especially true since you didn't raise on third, so the pot is still small. The chance that someone has trips is too great. If you're going to play stud, you should develop a healthy respect for paired door cards.


I don't know how to play two small pair either. /images/smile.gif I'd certainly bet fourth street and hope everyone folded. Getting it heads-up is pretty good, and I'd probably continue to bet until the other guy showed obvious improvement. He probably doesn't have twelve outs to beat you, but he certainly can't be drawing dead. I'd check-call the river unless I filled.

Sorry about the late response but:


1. On the first hand the raise is correct with jQ/Q. This must have been one tight game, and with a relatively significant ante your opponents are certainly making mistakes.


2. On the 6A/A hand it is certainly a mistake to not reraise here. Even with two paired door cards at 1-4 they are not that threatening and the most likely hand is still two pair. Against two pair you want to reraise to try to get one of them to fold. As far as limping goes I think you are better off raising not only because you want to limit the hand but your opponents will be making you money by calling.


3. The baby pairs are the toughest hands to play. I would keep betting until you are shown a better hand.


Good luck,

Pat

a valuable lesson learned there!!


Pat

In a small-limit game, I don't think the deception is worth it, since the pots are more multi-way. When you raise with an Ace, everyone at the table will assume you have Aces--whether or not they're good observers. But if you limp now and then and someone is as good an observer as you postulate, this good observer will simply add in the information that now and then you limp with a big pair, hurting yourself by giving other players a free card. They'll be pleased to learn this! You're not going to trip up often enough to justify the play.


Of course, there *are* some good reasons to limp with Aces--a very tight table, very early position with just small cards or rocks behind you, a King behind you in the hands of an aggressive player, etc. But garden-variety deception? I'd rather get it other ways that are less costly.