Who likes this pair?

[edthayer]

PP 2/4
Hero has JT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in MP3.

The only thing I've noticed at this table so far is that BB is LAG.

UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, BB raises, everyone calls.

Flop:
T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, folded to Hero, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Turn:
6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB bets, Hero calls.

River:
2 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
BB bets, Hero calls.

This hand is usually "call the 3-bet, fold the turn unimproved." But since I read BB as LAG, I decided to call this one down.

[private joker]

There's 9.5 BB in the pot on the turn, and you know you'll have to call 2 to see a showdown. Do you think you're ahead 2/13.5 of the time? Probably, given your read. It's not a bad calldown.

[Jules22]

First of all, why are you playing that from middle position? If all you have noticed at the table is that the person who is big blind is LAG, than you have no reason to play this hand from middle position. That said, even with the questionable play that BB practices, he did raise pre-flop. He may not have a high pocket pair, but it's conceivable that he has you crushed on the flop. When he three bets the flop, I put him on at least, AT LEAST, JT, in which case you are looking for a split at best.

After the three bet, I think it's a judgement call. Calling him down here may not be wrong, but what are you drawing too for help? If you don't get help, is a pair of T's with a J kicker worth the money you are about to invest? I think you make a fold and save yourself 2.5BB on a hand where it's likely you are already dominated.

[edthayer]

What's wrong with playing JTs in a multiway pot?

[Jules22]

[ QUOTE ]
There's 9.5 BB in the pot on the turn, and you know you'll have to call 2 to see a showdown. Do you think you're ahead 2/13.5 of the time? Probably, given your read. It's not a bad calldown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even after the three-bet? I don't think it's worth losing the money. That's 2.5BB's you have to call after deciding to call down.

[Avatar]

You should re-evaluate your calling standards with JTs Jules. Thats an auto-call from mid position with that many in.

[Jules22]

O.K. I have this discussion with several people. JT is better played from the button. You need position with this hand. If you hit nothing, it's easy to fold from any position. But when it hits, it hits big. You want everybody to be on your right so you can raise after everyone has called. In a multiway pot, hitting top pair is not good enough. Your kicker sucks, and you will have, in the best case scenario, AKQ that can beat you. JTs may be better, but in multiway pots it's easier to run into higher flushes. It's just not a good hand. Would you play 67s from middle position? I hope not, at least in limit games. You are drawing to same thing here, and it's just not profitable.

[Jules22]

If you are raised pre-flop, this hand becomes worse looking, and it looks bad anyways. IF you are hoping for a J or a T to be good here, than you are sorely beaten. You are drawing to the same things with this hand as 67s, 78s, 89s, etc. Now, as far as that many people in, it looks better from the button. But middle position? Come on! You could be raised by, what are there left to act, four people? You do not want to be raised pre-flop here. Once you are raised, which happened to hero, you have to call the three more, and that's what you did not want in the first place.

[donny5k]

Position isn't so important as to make playing it unprofitable from middle position. JTs is a great hand regardless of position with 5 opponents. I'm going to just ignore the "run into higher flushes" comment...
And no you aren't drawing to the same thing as 67s. You have at least reasonable if not semi-strong high card strength here. I give JTs about as much value as A5s.

[umdpoker]

there are already 3 limpers! folding here would be a serious mistake. consider the fact that a maniac will help you pump the pot after you hit the draw as well. i am not quite sure about the call-down, but if he is a bona-fide maniac, then i would do it.

[donny5k]

He has top friggin' pair!

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
O.K. I have this discussion with several people. JT is better played from the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

All hands are better played from the buton.


[ QUOTE ]
You need position with this hand. If you hit nothing, it's easy to fold from any position. But when it hits, it hits big. You want everybody to be on your right so you can raise after everyone has called.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've tried unsuccessfully to find the "Play Only From the Button," button.


[ QUOTE ]
In a multiway pot, hitting top pair is not good enough. Your kicker sucks, and you will have, in the best case scenario, AKQ that can beat you. JTs may be better, but in multiway pots it's easier to run into higher flushes. It's just not a good hand. Would you play 67s from middle position? I hope not, at least in limit games. You are drawing to same thing here, and it's just not profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I would play 67s from MP in loose-passive games after a few limpers. And, although you didn't ask me for a book recommendation...you need to read SSH.