Party Bad Beats [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Huhmare

10-20-2004, 03:29 PM

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (10 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, Button caps, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 26 BB

Button shows [ Ac, 4s ] a flush, ace high.
SB shows [ Qs, Qh ] a full house, Queens full of sevens.
Hero doesn't show [ 7d, Jd ] a full house, Sevens full of jacks.
UTG doesn't show [ Kc, Ts ] a flush, king high.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (5 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

UTG shows [ Jh, Th ] a flush, jack high.
Hero doesn't show [ 4c, 4d ] three of a kind, fours.

At this point I started to be too timid

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, Hero 3-bets, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, CO raises, UTG+1 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (12.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.75 BB

CO shows [ Ad, Td ] a full house, Aces full of tens.
Hero doesn't show [ Ts, Th ] a full house, Tens full of aces.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG raises, UTG+1 (poster) calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG caps, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises. UTG is now all-in

River: (15.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

Hero shows [ Ad, Ah ] a pair of aces.
UTG shows [ Qh, Qs ] three of a kind, queens.

I just wanted you all to see that all of this can happen in a half an hour.. I don't believe I'm the only one, but this certainly didn't encourage me to continue playing at party.

btspider

10-20-2004, 03:32 PM

PhatTBoll

10-20-2004, 03:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it happens. it makes me want to play at party.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huhmare--Do you understand why this makes sense? If you do, then you should see why complaining about bad beats is counterproductive.

Huhmare

10-20-2004, 03:46 PM

I certainly understand. It's good thing to have those players... But after that half an hour, I've been scared of betting the river for value and it has effected my play.

Quercus

10-20-2004, 03:46 PM

Huhmare

10-20-2004, 03:48 PM

I stopped playing at Party and I've been fine since..

btspider

10-20-2004, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I stopped playing at Party and I've been fine since..

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I certainly understand. It's good thing to have those players... But after that half an hour, I've been scared of betting the river for value and it has effected my play.

[/ QUOTE ]

permanently or for that session? that's why i responded b/c it sounded like you meant permanently.. Those players are at party, you want to play against those players. You want to play at Party.

77rules

10-20-2004, 03:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I just wanted you all to see that all of this can happen in a half an hour.. I don't believe I'm the only one, but this certainly didn't encourage me to continue playing at party.

[/ QUOTE ]
I had a wild run at Paradise 0.5/1 a couple of days ago. Floped a couple of full houses, got dealt quads twice, and was beaten by queen high str8 flush three times, all within less than 150 hands.

I keep hearing about all these sites being rigged, and trust me when I say that I understand the feeling. When youre aces are cracked by Q4o for the third time in two hours, it really does feel like somebody has it in for you.

I keep an open mind, so I'm not saying categorically that these sites aren't rigged. All I'm saying is, I want to see proof. These things happen, and I think it's Sklansky who's written that if you're a good player, it will happen more often.

Generally, bad beats are a sign that you're sitting at the right table. But if you start to feel that you just can't win, it's time to get up because you're probably on tilt.

davelin

10-20-2004, 04:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I stopped playing at Party and I've been fine since..

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems silly. Would you have felt better if you faced and lost against 9Ts in Hand 1, KK in Hand 2 and AA in Hand 3? I think it's funny when someone gets steamed about losing KK to J7o The contrast implies something like "well at least I lost to AA, that's a relief!"

phixxx

10-20-2004, 04:37 PM

I've seen quads 6 times today so far. 3 of them have been off the flop.

Huhmare

10-20-2004, 04:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I stopped playing at Party and I've been fine since..

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems silly. Would you have felt better if you faced and lost against 9Ts in Hand 1, KK in Hand 2 and AA in Hand 3? I think it's funny when someone gets steamed about losing KK to J7o The contrast implies something like "well at least I lost to AA, that's a relief!"

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your point? In all these hands the last card changed things. I knew i was ahead in all of these hands before the river..

davelin

10-20-2004, 04:43 PM

You're implication is that if you were behind the whole time instead, losing these hands would be more acceptable and the losses easier to bear. Bad beats happen but usually a sign of a profitable table/player.

Quercus

10-20-2004, 04:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I stopped playing at Party and I've been fine since..

[/ QUOTE ]

Fine because you aren't upset at Party Poker for kicking your ass for 30 minutes any more or fine because those other poker rooms would never be able to do that to you?

Let's look at some of these hands while we're here:

Hand 1: You limped in with J7s and lose to an underplayed QQ. You can't possibly be upset at the absymal play of the small blind in this hand. So, that's one hand to the good.

Hand 2: You limped from MP1 with 44. With 8 players on the table, and only one limper in front of you, this is a marginal call unless you know the table to be very loose. You need callers for 44 to make the set profitable over the long run. Might be a leak for you to dig into later, or might be fine if the table texture is sufficiently loose.

After the flop, you played the hand just fine, but so did your opponent. Nothing to get upset about here. So, this is just routine. Nothing to be happy or unhappy about, though you may want to examine how you play low pocket pairs preflop.

Hand 3: You are timid after losing two hands? First sign of a major leak in your game. That's bad. Luck rules the short term in poker and no one can claim on monopoly on the good kind. Another something to think about later.

Your preflop play is correct. Your postflop play looks fine. Villain called 3 bets cold with ATs. The proper response here isn't to get upset but to laugh at this absolutely horrid play. (Laugh in private, of course, since doing it to his face would be impolite.) Sit at a table with this player long enough and you will take every penny he has. Why do you care if he wins one up front? So, we've had two good hands and one neutral.

Last hand: His play and your play are both fine. His card came in for him. Tough break - so another neutral hand.

So, at the end of those four hands, you've had two good hands, two mundane hands, and a couple of things about your game to think about. What's the problem?

Yads

10-20-2004, 05:06 PM

I really don't think any of these are horrible beats except maybe the first one and possibly the fourth one. I think your opponents all palyed fairly well if I were to put myself in their shoes. In the 2nd one your oponent had about 9 outs to draw you out. In the 3d one he flopped 2 pair. The third one your oponent misread you, but would you fold in his position? I think these are just bad luck on your part. You were ahead the whole way until the river, but got outdrawn. It's not like your oponents cracked your great cards with garbage.

Greg J

10-20-2004, 05:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Get your emotional response to variation under control before you throw away your money.

[/ QUOTE ]
And I would like to add: before you go making posts that don't contribute.

emonrad87

10-20-2004, 05:58 PM

Please do not post bad beat stories. Frankly, NO ONE CARES THAT YOU GOT OUTDRAWN. IT HAPPENS. If you can't deal with it then stop playing poker. And stop cluttering this forum with your sob stories of a downswing as well.

Huhmare

10-20-2004, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 1: You limped in with J7s and lose to an underplayed QQ.

Hand 2: You limped from MP1 with 44.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does that limping mean? I was on a BB in the first hand.. Second hand was marginal and I know that, but 1 SB is quite small amount to see the flop and maybe take down a big pot.. I've started mucking those small PP:s nowadays. And I think my play is much better now.. That happened about 4k hands ago. BTW that SB played his QQ terribly.

Huhmare

10-20-2004, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Please do not post bad beat stories. Frankly, NO ONE CARES THAT YOU GOT OUTDRAWN. IT HAPPENS. If you can't deal with it then stop playing poker. And stop cluttering this forum with your sob stories of a downswing as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you ain't interested go watch tv.

zuluking

10-20-2004, 06:05 PM

Would you like some cheese with that Whine?
Or should I call you a Waaaaambulance?

Huhmare

10-20-2004, 06:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]

After the flop, you played the hand just fine, but so did your opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. So do you call 5SB pot to the river with backdoor flush draw and a mid pair with weak kicker? On an 8 handed game? keeping your opponents honest?

Quercus

10-20-2004, 06:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What does that limping mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

It means you came in without raising.

[ QUOTE ]
...but 1 SB is quite small amount to see the flop and maybe take down a big pot...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fishy thinking. 1SB on speculative hands adds up to a lot of SB over time and a significant leak. You need to have a better reason than just "its just a SB" in order to join the action.

The idea of betting 1SB to take down big pots is a good one, but in order for the pots to be big, you need lots of other callers in the pot with you. The limp might be ok, but you need to have enough of a read on table texture to think you are going to get the callers. You want five or more to play this sort of hand. I don't know if the table was loose enough or not - just something I'd mention. (FWIW - if two had limped ahead of you, this is an easy call. If zero had limped before you, its an easy fold. One is on the rubber though).

[ QUOTE ]
I've started mucking those small PP:s nowadays. And I think my play is much better now.. That happened about 4k hands ago. BTW that SB played his QQ terribly.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my point. He played his hand horribly - you should be happy, not frustrated. Horrible plays come from horrible players and you will make a lot of from them in the long run. What happens on a single hand is irrelevant. You could get crushed by this guy ten hands in a row and still be happy to see him at the next table you play at.

wabe

10-20-2004, 06:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

After the flop, you played the hand just fine, but so did your opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. So do you call 5SB pot to the river with backdoor flush draw and a mid pair with weak kicker? On an 8 handed game? keeping your opponents honest?

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop: 10 hearts, 2 jacks. 12 outs is 2.8:1 odds. Pot gives him 4:1 odds. He calls.

Turn: 9 hearts, 2 jacks. 11 outs is 3.2:1 odds. Pot gives him 3:1 odds. If he hits his flush on the river, it's likely you're in for a bet. So, effectively that's 4:1 odds. He calls.

Someone might want to check my math.

DavidC

10-20-2004, 06:44 PM

Hey dude, when you say to yourself "At this point I started to play too timid." you know that you're not playing the way you should any more.

I'm not going to tell you not to feel emotion over this, because we all do. What I suggest is that you step away from the table for a bit, take a walk, and come back when you're ready to kick some ass.

Same goes for when you're doing really well and you're steaming.

I assure you, however, that changing venues will not make this sort of variance disappear, and you probably know that.

Take it easy,
Dave.

Quercus

10-20-2004, 06:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok. So do you call 5SB pot to the river with backdoor flush draw and a mid pair with weak kicker? On an 8 handed game? keeping your opponents honest?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, actually, if you are playing a TAG, you probably lose even more money here. If I'm UTG, I probably bet the flop with middle pair and a backdoor flush draw. The three other players have just sort of fallen into the pot, the SB and BB could be on almost anything and there's no reason to strongly believe this board has really popped someone.

When I bet into you, you are going to raise, SB and BB are folding and I'm calling. The pot is now 4BB on the turn.

On the turn, I'm check/calling 5:1 to hit my flush + nice implied odds on the river.

When I hit my flush, I'm either betting into you or check-raising, depending on my read of you. Either way, you lose more to an aggressive player than you would to a passive one in this case.

So, I revise my original thoughts on this hand. This is actually a good one for you, because it likely means that you're facing a passive or semi-passive opponent, which is often better for your bankroll than an aggressive roll. At the very least, you know something important about him that you might be able to use on a later hand.

The point is, you'll win this pot far more often than you'll lose it. But, if you have to lose, wouldn't you rather lose to poor play than good play? Its more profitable that way.

radek2166

10-20-2004, 07:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So, at the end of those four hands, you've had two good hands, two mundane hands, and a couple of things about your game to think about. What's the problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

He should Look at the unbright side at least he did not sucked out by J5o and total crap like that.

I would not be that upset by this.
What does he do in hand 1 if the q's raise preflop?

Yes I can feel the posters pain PP tilts me like nothing in life. Now i just sit here and think to my self thank you.

Steve

Chris Daddy Cool

10-20-2004, 07:54 PM

uh hand one you deserved to lose. you massively overplayed it and it's not even close to being a bad beat.

please don't post these useless little antedotes.

emonrad87

10-20-2004, 08:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Flop: 10 hearts, 2 jacks. 12 outs is 2.8:1 odds. Pot gives him 4:1 odds. He calls.

Someone might want to check my math.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the flop, don't you have to consider that a single heart isnt really an out, because only one more heart doesn't give him the flush, it only gives him a flush draw?

emonrad87

10-20-2004, 08:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
uh hand one you deserved to lose. you massively overplayed it and it's not even close to being a bad beat.

please don't post these useless little antedotes.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you like some cheese with that Whine?
Or should I call you a Waaaaambulance?

[/ QUOTE ]

MUCH AGREED!

wabe

10-20-2004, 10:21 PM

But he needs a heart for a flush, right? Does that not count?

Feel free to point me to the Beginners forum if that's incorrect.

Huhmare

10-20-2004, 10:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But he needs a heart for a flush, right? Does that not count?

Feel free to point me to the Beginners forum if that's incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

ïf he needs two of a suit, he is on a backdoor draw. Backdoor flush is counted as a .5 out if i remember right.

Huhmare

10-20-2004, 10:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

After the flop, you played the hand just fine, but so did your opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. So do you call 5SB pot to the river with backdoor flush draw and a mid pair with weak kicker? On an 8 handed game? keeping your opponents honest?

[/ QUOTE ]

Flop: 10 hearts, 2 jacks. 12 outs is 2.8:1 odds. Pot gives him 4:1 odds. He calls.

Turn: 9 hearts, 2 jacks. 11 outs is 3.2:1 odds. Pot gives him 3:1 odds. If he hits his flush on the river, it's likely you're in for a bet. So, effectively that's 4:1 odds. He calls.

Someone might want to check my math.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those jacks would give him a three of a kind, but i would get a full house. So he really has nothing at this point, but two hearts gives him the hand and the odds for that is something like 1:25

bisonbison

10-21-2004, 06:58 AM

DO NOT USE MY CONVERTER FOR BAD BEAT POSTS.

chesspain

10-21-2004, 08:07 AM

Did you also whine after the 1980 Olympic Gold Medal hockey game?

TheHip41

10-21-2004, 09:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I just wanted you all to see that all of this can happen in a half an hour.. I don't believe I'm the only one, but this certainly didn't encourage me to continue playing at party.

[/ QUOTE ]

We all know. If you can't hack it emotionally, go play checkers.

Post some real hands so we can help you improve your game. I'm sure with 30K hands on PT, everyone has a bad beat story. When your aces full lose to runner runner straight flush... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

TheHip41

10-21-2004, 09:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Those jacks would give him a three of a kind, but i would get a full house. So he really has nothing at this point, but two hearts gives him the hand and the odds for that is something like 1:25

[/ QUOTE ]

That's assuming he KNEW you had a set. Which is impossible. But wait, maybe he did know, and he has a program that tells him what the turn and river will be. Hmm, but if that was the case, he'd cap every street. Also, he wouldn't be playing .0000001/.00000002

Suck it up, next hand

Huhmare

10-21-2004, 10:26 AM

Yes yes.. The point was that at that point I was pretty new to limit hold'em and made my first deposit to party and lost every hand I thought to win.. I ain't saying that online poker is rigged or nothing. This was about a month ago and I know these aren't even true bad beats. What I'm trying to say that my bankroll was very small and I lost it in half an hour... Period.

TheHip41

10-21-2004, 11:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes yes.. The point was that at that point I was pretty new to limit hold'em and made my first deposit to party and lost every hand I thought to win.. I ain't saying that online poker is rigged or nothing. This was about a month ago and I know these aren't even true bad beats. What I'm trying to say that my bankroll was very small and I lost it in half an hour... Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't mean you suck, it means you played too big for your "bankroll" If you lost everything you had in 30 minutes, you shouldn't have been playing at whatever stakes you were playing at.

If you have 300BB, and are a decent player, you have to try really hard to go broke on the micro party tables.

Everyone who has been playing for awhile has had some bad streaks. I lost 80BB in about 300 hands. Just one of those days. Just stick to a limit you can afford right now.