Raising on the turn,,

[trumpman84]

I'm relatively new to limit hold 'em so I'm just wondering.

If you have position on someone and they bet into you on the flop, is it ever not correct to raise on the turn with top 2 pair or better given that you didnt raise before the flop?

I understand that you want to raise to clear off more people, but the only people you are clearing off are people who probably need runner runner help in order to beat your hand and you want them to stay. Also, hands you don't want sticking around like OESD, flush draws are probably coming along anyway, along with anybody who's already called one bet, so it's not as if your giving a free card, and you can wait til the turn to give away your hand and get them all for two big bets. Am I wrong with my reasoning here?

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have position on someone and they bet into you on the flop, is it ever not correct to raise on the turn with top 2 pair or better given that you didnt raise before the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume that when you say "raise on the turn" you really mean "raise on the flop". The answer to almost any unconditional statements is a flat no.

With a set and a small field (say three players), a reasonable argument can be made to wait until the turn to raise, especially if the board doesn't have many draws on it and your opponents tend to get scared easily.

However, as the number of players goes up, raising is more important. You've got more hands out there that can beat you. The people you want to clear off are those with things like a pair and an overcard. They have either 3 or 5 outs. If they're only calling one in a big field, it's probably profitable for them to do so (there will be lots of other callers and so implied odds go way up). But calling two becomes far less profitable for them (it may even cost them money since their implied AND their immediate odds drop significantly). And you win no matter what their decision turns out to be. Either you win because they fold and you have more pot equity, or they call and you profit from their mistake. The latter case occurs far more often at these stakes.

Trying to play fancy like this is *RARELY* more profitable than playing straight-forwardly, especially when there's no raise preflop. Not that it never happens, because it does, but it's the exception.

[DMBFan23]

I understand the concept you are getting at, but this is VERY flop dependant...on a flop where there are more likely to be gutshots, overcard kickers, etc, you would play it way differently than if the board was three flushed or three to a straight, which would play differently from a board that was totally ragged. there are times when a raise protects your hand versus these inferior draws (by making it a bad idea to call because of unfavorable pot odds) where as a call gives them correct odds to draw out on you; there are also times when a bet is sufficient to protect your hand.

Also, pot size is crucial in any of these decisions.

you'll probably hear this from someone else if you don't hear it from me, but if I dont say it first someone will say "post some hands you have questions on." We'll definitely help. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif