River check sends me on tilt!

[jayrutz2]

This hand sent me on tilt...was the river check as bad as I think it was?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, UTG folds.

River: (11.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

[pcg1010]

i don't think there is any value in betting, if he calls he obviously has something better than a high card/66 and he probably will call any bet since hes already called a bet and a raise. What was the result?

[Jonny]

Either way, you have to call the river if he bets IMO...

And he may check a hand that beats you, so I think a check is the correct play.

[dogmeat]

I'm still learning to slow down here. The good part is, I am finding on hands like this, or where I was betting a small or medium pair, when I check the river - my opponents often bluff. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I check here too. The only hand you can reasonably beat is a busted flush draw: would this player call all those bets to draw to the 3rd nut flush? I doubt it.

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[brian0729]

Why didnt you bet the flop?

[brian0729]

What kind of player is the button. Do you think his preflop raise is legit? Have you been getting carried away preflop, is he isolating you?

I would bet this flop and turn and most likely check/call on the river due to the size of the pot. I would not be betting this river very often. I probably only bet this river against a LAG who I have already been in a hand with and know that he/she will call with less than AK.

If this tilted you. Maybe you should try something else. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[jayrutz2]

I had put him on a Q. Even so, with 2266 on board, don't you think he is more likely to put me on a boat, rather than a busted flush draw? If so, highly likely he folds river, at least more than the 10% of the time needed to make this a good bet, right?

Ends up he has JJ. I think he mucks a river bet here. Other hands possible here are AK, which he mucks, Q anything which he may or may not muck, and lower PPs or busted flush draws which he mucks too. I can't see him not c-raising turn with set and a flush draw on board and a bet into him...

To me, the moral of the story is if you take aggresive lead out with 15 out draw (flush and overcards), opponent calls down, bet the river, and I think my check is a BIG mistake! Agree? Disagree?
K

[jayrutz2]

Check raise to build pot and take intiative...

[HajiShirazu]

You cant be serious. There is value in betting this river if you think he will fold AK. But there's no way this player folds JJ having made it this far, nor should he.
There was nothing wrong with how you played this hand, in fact you played it well although I favor just leading out on this flop, as maybe button will raise if he has the same hand as you and let you get it heads up.

[jayrutz2]

But I only need 1/10 to fold his PP to make it profitable, right? You and I and other 2+2ers would never fold JJ, but the average party person with an overcard and 2 pair on board with someone CRing and betting into you all rounds?????

K

[brian0729]

I had put him on a Q.
You are behind this hand, but that is to narrow of a range to put him on for his three bet preflop.

don't you think he is more likely to put me on a boat, rather than a busted flush draw?
No way, You raised and capped preflop. He should think you have any hand that contains a 2 or a 6. He may put you on QQ but again that is to narrow of a range of hands to put a person on.

Ends up he has JJ. I think he mucks a river bet here.
Never at Party 2-4 with this board.

Other hands possible here are AK, which he mucks
Again with the double paired board I say the chance are close to zero, AK mucks here.

Q anything which he may or may not muck
Possible against a very weak tight opponent but doubtful against most Party 2-4 players.

To me, the moral of the story is if you take aggresive lead out with 15 out draw (flush and overcards), opponent calls down, bet the river, and I think my check is a BIG mistake! Agree? Disagree?
Look at that board and your hand for awhile, then think about your opponents hand/s. What hands will call your river bet that you beat?

[brian0729]

Check raise to build pot and take intiative...

You did that preflop, now lead the flop and three bet if given the chance.

[brian0729]

But I only need 1/10 to fold his PP to make it profitable, right?

You realize any PP beats you and they are very rarely going to fold because they have a PP higher than the board.

[jayrutz2]

There is a Q out so there PP is not top pair. Betting is to get a fold, not for value
'

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
I had put him on a Q. Even so, with 2266 on board, don't you think he is more likely to put me on a boat, rather than a busted flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

if he paid attention to your preflop raise, he's not gonna put you on a boat. QQ is the only boat you could logically have, but there are a ton of holdings that are much more likely.

the boat is more likely than the busted flush draw though, since the only busted flush draw you could have is exactly what you're holding (or AsJs if you're too aggressive pre-flop).

if he has a queen though, he'd be dumb to put you on QQ. it's just too unlikely.

when you check-raise the flop, i put you on a big pocket pair, like AA or KK with &gt; 50% probability.

[private joker]

I agree with everyone else. What hand could he possibly have to play a capped PF and would fold for one bet at the river? He has a pocket pair. Even if he has JJ and puts you on a Q, he'll call the one bet on the river because of the size of the pot. There's no way he puts you on a 2 or 6 with your action preflop. You can't force a fold; check is fine.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a Q out so there PP is not top pair. Betting is to get a fold, not for value
'

[/ QUOTE ]
He's not folding here. River check good.

Rob

[Jimbo720]

Name any single hand involving a 2 or a 6 that would be correct to cap preflop.

[jayrutz2]

YEAH, you all are correct! No way I have anything other than AQs, AA, KK, QQ or AKo AKs based on pre-flop action, probably no way he ever folds his JJ if he has seen it this far...

It's funny how you can still be steaming even after a day and still not see obvious things:) Guess I just missed my 15 outs twice and that is life /images/graemlins/smile.gif