Two passives, a LAG, and QQ [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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bakku

10-20-2004, 03:04 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

UTG+1 is a LAG, 69VPIP, 18PFR, not too LAG postflop though
BB is loose passive preflop, decent postflop
MP2 is loose passive

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.33 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero..

What's my action and plan for the rest of the hand (if I'm not folding)?

Edit: My reads on all 3 of these players are over only 30 hands

SCfuji

10-20-2004, 03:10 AM

i would raise here. seems like UTG+1 could've raised with the QT hearts and got excited when he saw the flush draw. but the BB was cold calling all the pf raises it looks like, so i would be more wary of the BB hand than the UTG + 1 hand.

i think after i 3-bet the flop if the bb caps, utg + 1 calls, it would be correct to call to see the turn and hope you improve with one of the last two Qs /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

if the bb still doesn't slow down on the turn id say he took the flop with 22, but you would have to do the math to see if it would be worth it to catch one of the last two Js or last two Qs.

but ive only been playing for about 8 months so what do i know /images/graemlins/smile.gif thats just my two cents.

Fnord

10-20-2004, 03:12 AM

My first thought is "you're beat, fold"
My second thought is "pot is too big, re-raise"
My third thought is "re-raising does nothing for you, call and think about popping the turn"
My fourth thought is "my head hurts"

Chris Daddy Cool

10-20-2004, 03:14 AM

bakku usually posts some interesting questions. this is one of them.

sublime

10-20-2004, 04:06 AM

bakku usually posts some interesting questions. this is one of them.

What are you his publicist? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Folding is wrong IMO

As for calling/3-betting I am lost.

Is Stellarwind up this late?

crockett

10-20-2004, 08:37 AM

O.k. I've sat their and stared and stared and I've finally come to the conclusion that I would fold.

When I'm playing I think there is about 90% chance I cold call and a 10% chance I re-raise. But I think both these plays are foolish, especially cold calling.

I think I leak a lot of money away in these situations because UTG+1 gets me so focused on him that I forget there are other players in the hand.

I put UTG+1 on precisely 2 cards. But BB leads after calling 3 cold pre-flop and MP2 STILL likes his hand.

I think the most likely hands are BB = JJ and MP2 w/ a flush draw.

Not to mention that even evil players like UTG+1 do get dealt AA and with a PFR of 18% his raising standards definately include hands with J's in them.

I just believe getting 8:1 in this scenario is not worth the investment. Especially since you will most likely be pouring a lot more money into the pot to see the river.

If I had a queen that was a heart I might change my tune.

sfer

10-20-2004, 08:50 AM

Call the flop. If the BB calls, intend to raise a non-heart, non-A/K turn. If the BB 3-bets, make sure the turn is a Q.

sfer

10-20-2004, 11:31 AM

bakku

10-20-2004, 12:32 PM

i would raise here. seems like UTG+1 could've raised with the QT hearts and got excited when he saw the flush draw. but the BB was cold calling all the pf raises it looks like, so i would be more wary of the BB hand than the UTG + 1 hand.

I don't think UTG+1 was LAG enough to cap QTs, but there are definitely a couple of hands he'd cap that I'm way ahead of.

i think after i 3-bet the flop if the bb caps, utg + 1 calls, it would be correct to call to see the turn and hope you improve with one of the last two Qs .

Well, if I 3-bet I'm obviously calling a cap..Folding would just be ridiculous. The pot will also be big enough that I'll have odds to see the river and hope to spike a queen there.

if the bb still doesn't slow down on the turn id say he took the flop with 22, but you would have to do the math to see if it would be worth it to catch one of the last two Js or last two Qs.

If BB has 22, I have 4 outs. I'd definitely have odds to see a river card if I'm assuming no one else has a J and I'm ahead of UTG+1.

bakku

10-20-2004, 12:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My first thought is "you're beat, fold"
My second thought is "pot is too big, re-raise"
My third thought is "re-raising does nothing for you, call and think about popping the turn"
My fourth thought is "my head hurts"

[/ QUOTE ]

That's one way of looking at it /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

bakku

10-20-2004, 12:35 PM

Call the flop. If the BB calls, intend to raise a non-heart, non-A/K turn. If the BB 3-bets, make sure the turn is a Q.

What do you do if BB 3-bets and UTG+1 caps after you've cold called?

make sure the turn is a Q.

ding ding ding! This is clearly the correct play. Do others see why?

bisonbison

10-20-2004, 02:20 PM

bump.

make sure the turn is a Q. ding ding ding! This is clearly the correct play. Do others see why?

Because it allows you to lose the maximum to JJ?

sfer

10-20-2004, 02:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What do you do if BB 3-bets and UTG+1 caps after you've cold called?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am probably calling and seeing the turn.

Fat Nicky

10-20-2004, 02:47 PM

My first thought was to 3-bet the flop with the overpair, then I thought about it some more by analyzing what could be each players holdings.

BB - a LP would CC in the BB with something like TT, 99, 88 and would probably call down with those hands on a paired board. If he had AA/KK, he would also call down on the paired board. It's possible he may also have a flush draw.

MP2 - His CC on the flop tells me he either has a flush draw or a smaller pocket pair.

UTG+1 - it's tough to put someone on a hand that is 69VPIP. He could really have anything.

Given this information, I think I cold call the flop to see what the BB does. If he 3-bets, i'm done with the hand on the turn. If he calls, I'm hoping the call this down to the river. Is this weak??

Shillx

10-20-2004, 02:51 PM

I totally agree. This hand reminds me a little bit of Flop Play Hand Quiz #14 in SSH. Reraising the flop will only get out hands that you already destroy. Call and see what the turn brings, then decide what your best action is.

bunky9590

10-20-2004, 04:18 PM

Well, its better if I know the UTG raise/cap standards.
AS it is on the flop, DO NOT reraise. (I know, I know) I would likely call to see the turn, if its a Heart, Ace or King, I'm foldsville. If its bet and raised to me again on a brick, I still fold. I only see past the turn if it costs one bet to do so.

bakku

10-20-2004, 07:08 PM

Bunky pretty much summed up my thoughts on this one. I don't want to fold just yet, there's too much of a chance I still have the best hand. I don't like 3-betting and potentially trapping myself against a bigger pair or a J. If I cold call I get to see what BB does and can fold if it comes back to me capped.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16.33 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (12.16 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

River: (18.16 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 21.16 BB
Main Pot: 21.16 BB, between MP2, Hero and UTG+1. > Pot won by Hero (21.16 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 has Ad Kc (one pair, jacks).
MP2 has Kd 2d (two pair, jacks and twos).
Hero has Qc Qd (full house, queens full of jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins 21.16 BB.

MoreWineII

10-20-2004, 07:12 PM

The two crying calls on the end are classic.

bakku

10-20-2004, 07:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The two crying calls on the end are classic.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be totally honest, I don't think they were crying calls.

MoreWineII

10-20-2004, 07:17 PM

/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

sfer

10-20-2004, 07:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
To be totally honest, I don't think they were crying calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike is right. Unimproved AK calling is retarded.