Umpire's Post-game Press Conference

[Neil Stevens]

"Joe West.. he saw it clearly. He did some good umpiring. The runner was out for interference."

"As long as he is running normally, you're going to have collisions like that, but you cannot intentionally slap..."

So the original call was that it wasn't intentional, but they overruled that judgement call and substituted another one.

[Joe Tall]

So the original call was that it wasn't intentional, but they overruled that judgement call and substituted another one.

No, the original call was that he was safe because Arroyo dropped the ball. (Eventhough ARod never touched 1st base) Then, Joe West interviened and corrected the call by giving ARod interference.

GO SOX!
-JT

[West]

Whatever the they did, they got it right. It was obvious that he intentionally swiped at Arroyo's arm to knock the ball loose.

[ThaSaltCracka]

when I first saw the play I was jumping up and down excited as [censored], then I saw the reply and knew instantly it would be overturned. It just further solidified my stance that A-Rod is the biggest douche bag in the majors.

[Neil Stevens]

Why do you think it was intentional? Seriously. I really thought he was just slapping the arm out of his way.

Was there something you saw about how he did it, or where he was looking, or something that makes you think he deliberately did it?

[andyfox]

Didn't hear the press conference, but I think you must be right. I don't think they can overrule a judgment call, can they?

[Neil Stevens]

Oh yeah... that's why you're not more worked up about it. You have the whole Mariner loyalty issue to work though, heh.

I wish I'd just read Theory of Poker, skipped the rest of the playoffs, and waited until next year /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Neil Stevens]

Joe Tall's explanation must be what they're officially saying, yes, because the alternative is to be overruling a judgement call. Once they do that, then there's no reason to disallow arguing balls and strikes, and then you have chaos.

[andyfox]

I'm a nervous wreck of a Yankee fan and it was obvious to me it was an illegal play the first time I saw it. He used his left hand to slap at the glove, not the arm, to tryto knock the ball out of the glove.

[Joe Tall]

I don't think they can overrule a judgment call, can they?

No they can't. Thus, Joe West comes up, asks if he saw ARod, 1st base ump says, "No, Doug was in the way." Joe West then gives ARod the interference and he is out. Ball is dead, Jeter back to first.

Peace, Andy. GO SOX!
-Joe Tall

[West]

Huh? Why else would he be slapping his arm out of the way?

He deliberately did it because he had no hope of avoiding a tag, and the only chance he had was for the ball to come loose.

[ThaSaltCracka]

no, I am not worked up about it because the umps made the right decision.

[Neil Stevens]

I think he did it as a reflex, just to get the fielder out of his way, to climb past some arm sticking in his way. I think it was a human reaction.

I just don't see how this was so clearly intentional, if you ignore the result and look only at the situation at the time the slap occurred.

[Neil Stevens]

I just don't see how EVERYONE can read the man's mind and KNOW it was intentional.

[andyfox]

A slap at the arm would be with the back of the hand in an upward or outward motion. This was clearly done in a downward motion with the palm of the hand.

I'm a diehard Yankee rooter. It was a deliberate attempt to slap the ball out of the glove and therefore illegal.

The reaction of the New York fans was disgusting.

[Neil Stevens]

[ QUOTE ]
The reaction of the New York fans was disgusting.


[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this part 100%, and it's getting later even here in California so I'll just leave the rest be. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Don Denkinger]

I think it's a travesty that they got together and overruled the first base umpire like that.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't see how EVERYONE can read the man's mind and KNOW it was intentional.

[/ QUOTE ]
DUDE, it totally looked intentional. I mean he raised his arm up in a manner not consistent with normal running and struck Arroyo's glove. if that was intentional then AROD has tourets.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a travesty that they got together and overruled the first base umpire like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't let Clarkmeister see that you're posting here. He's going to spam you with nasty PMs.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
It just further solidified my stance that A-Rod is the biggest douche bag in the majors.

[/ QUOTE ]
Likewise, the reaction of the Yankee fans solidified my stance that they are the biggest douche bag fans in sports.

[ThaSaltCracka]

if you are referring to the few hundred that behaved that way, then yes you are correct. There is no excuse for throwing things on the field under any circumstance.

[Don Denkinger]

I've survived worse threats than PM's from some loser on a poker message board.

[Schaefer]

A travesty that someone who had a clear view of the play overruled someone who had an obstructed view? Are you out of your mind? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FRIKKIN MIND!

[Don Denkinger]

[ QUOTE ]
A travesty that someone who had a clear view of the play overruled someone who had an obstructed view? Are you out of your mind? ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FRIKKIN MIND!

[/ QUOTE ]

The ump at first made the call. That call clearly should stand. He was the closest to the play, how could he get it wrong?

[J.R.]

I really thought he was just slapping the arm out of his way.

Exactly. He intentionally tried to hit Aroyyo's arm. No can do.

[WEASEL45]

How come Jeter had to go back to first? If Arod wouldnt have swiped the ball, Jeter would have made it safely to second.

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
How come Jeter had to go back to first? If Arod wouldnt have swiped the ball, Jeter would have made it safely to second.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interferance is a dead ball play.

[goofball]

the rule states that if the batter/runner causes interference, and it occurs before he reaches first base, all other baserunners will return to teh base they were on before pitch was thrown.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I am really starting to think the umps blew this call.

AROD is a batter runner, the rule stats that for it to be interference for a batter runner, he must: (b) After hitting or bunting a fair ball, his bat hits the ball a second time in fair territory. The ball is dead and no runners may advance. If the batter runner drops his bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpire's judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the ball is alive and in play; (c) He intentionally deflects the course of a foul ball in any manner; (d) Before two are out and a runner on third base, the batter hinders a fielder in making a play at home base; the runner is out;

or:
If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner. ( Note key word double play.

or:
If, in the judgment of the umpire, a batter runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball, with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead; the umpire shall call the batter runner out for interference and shall also call out the runner who had advanced closest to the home plate regardless where the double play might have been possible. In no event shall bases be run because of such interference. again key words, "willfully tryin to break up a double play"

or:
In running the last half of the distance from home base to first base while the ball is being fielded to first base, he runs outside (to the right of) the three foot line, or inside (to the left of) the foul line and, in the umpire's judgment, interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base, or attempting to field a batted ball; The lines marking the three foot lane are a part of that "lane" but the interpretation to be made is that a runner is required to have both feet within the three foot "lane" or on the lines marking the "lane."

or:
He fails to avoid a fielder who is attempting to field a batted ball, or intentionally interferes with a thrown ball, provided that if two or more fielders attempt to field a batted ball, and the runner comes in contact with one or more of them, the umpire shall determine which fielder is entitled to the benefit of this rule, and shall not declare the runner out for coming in contact with a fielder other than the one the umpire determines to be entitled to field such a ball;

Rule 7.09

you will notice the key words in almost every single rule state that the runner has to interfere either in the actually process of fielding the ball or the actual process of trying to get another runner out for it to be interference.

What is different about what AROD did and when runners willfully run into catchers at home attempting to break up a tag? Or whats different about what AROD did and when base runners slid in hard at bases to break up tags? I honestly can't see anything different.

I am somewhat torn here because AROD most definitely willfully tries to break up the tag, but it still doesn't seem against the rules. Someone show me how I am wrong without calling me an idiot or a Yankees lover. In fact, please cite the rule that explicitly states that what AROD did was illegal.

[Lazymeatball]

If it wasn't illegal, don't you think every play at first would turn into a slap fight? I'm pretty sure allowing you to charge the catcher is the one exception to this rule, added back in 1898 to fullfill a bit of bloodlust.

[Toro]

WEEI in Boston had Steve Palermo on this morning. Steve is an old friend, I met him when we were both 17 back in 1966 and we played on a Summer basketball team together where he and I were the only highschoolers on a team that had all College players. Great guy who went on to be arguably the top umpire in MLB before he was tragically shot in the spine while trying to help a woman who was being mugged in a restaurant parking lot in Texas.

The injury left Steve paralyzed, ending his umpiring career but he's worked in different capacities for MLB. In his interview on the radio he told about a manual that is given out to all the umpires and all the managers that's called MLB's Official Rules Manual for Umpires and Managers. This manual is not available to the general public.

In the manual, they go into very specdific detail on many situations that may occur in the game that aren't specifically spelled out in the official Rule Book. This is interesting because with the play that occurred with arod last night there is nowhere in the Official Rules where it states that it is illegal to knock the ball out as Arod did.

But in this manual, and he read it verbatim on the air, it specifically stated that swiping at the ball as Arod did was considered interference.

He was also asked whether Arod should have been thrown out of the game and he said absolutely not. He made what I thought was a great analogy. He compared it to a common foul in basketball as opposed to a flagrant foul which would be cause for ejection. In his opinion this was a common foul.

He also said it was proper for the umps to confer on the play since the ump who had the call could have been screened on the play.

It was a fascinating interview that I'm not doing justice to here with my reporting.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
don't you think every play at first would turn into a slap fight?

[/ QUOTE ] No, because 99% of the plays at first are force outs. Ask 3B, SS, 2B, and C if they have been either cleated or atleast hit trying to make a tag at the base on a close play, [censored] like that happens.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure allowing you to charge the catcher is the one exception to this rule,

[/ QUOTE ] I don't think its a exception, because in fact there is no rule against it! /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[JinX11]

[ QUOTE ]
The ump at first made the call. That call clearly should stand. He was the closest to the play, how could he get it wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious or are you just trolling?? Let me understand this: you have a problem with the correct call being made?????

[ThaSaltCracka]

thanks for the post Toro.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The ump at first made the call. That call clearly should stand. He was the closest to the play, how could he get it wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious or are you just trolling?? Let me understand this: you have a problem with the correct call being made?????

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't know, Don Denkinger is the 1st base ump who blew a call at 1st base in the 1985 World Series, in game 6. He called the runner safe at first, when it was clearly an out. Someone's just being creative with an alias...although I really want to know who!

[J.R.]

Why is it different (if it actually is) with respect to a catcher at home? The common claim is that the catcher has blocked the plate and the runner has the right to proceed to home plate, but quite frequently it is obvious that the runner has altered their path away from directly trying to touch home plate and is deliberately and intentionally trying hit the catcher and dislodge the ball? Maybe it all comes down to judgment, but I think there are obvious cases where the runner is going after the catcher, not the plate.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The ump at first made the call. That call clearly should stand. He was the closest to the play, how could he get it wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious or are you just trolling?? Let me understand this: you have a problem with the correct call being made?????

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't know, Don Denkinger is the 1st base ump who blew a call at 1st base in the 1985 World Series, in game 6. He called the runner safe at first, when it was clearly an out. Someone's just being creative with an alias...although I really want to know who!

[/ QUOTE ]
HAHAHA, leave it to a Red Sox fan to think with emotion and not logic. The mere fact that the person he is questioning signed up last night looks to have completely elluded him.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
but I think there are obvious cases where the runner is going after the catcher, not the plate.

[/ QUOTE ] yeah I think so too, or is the rule simply you can't swipe at the ball?

I suppose AROD could have simply trucked Arroyo if he wanted to, right?

[J.R.]

"I suppose AROD could have simply trucked Arroyo if he wanted to, right?"

I think that would pretty clearly be the case IF Arroyo were in the basepath. If the ball came out because Arod was running normally and Arod unintentionally collided with the glove, no interference. Same if Arroyo had been in the basepath and Arod trucked him trying to get to first.

[ThaSaltCracka]

he should have, that would have been cool.

[JinX11]

Taken from Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpbmdmam0wBF9TAzI1NjY0ODI1BHNlYwN0 bQ--?slug=ap-alcs-a-rod-interference&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Section 6.1 of the MLB Umpire Manual:

"While contact may occur between a fielder and runner during a tag attempt, a runner is not allowed to use his hands or arms to commit an obviously malicious or unsportsmanlike act."

Rule 2.00 from the Official Baseball Rules:

"If the umpire declares the batter, batter runner, or a runner out for interference, all other runners shall return to the last base that was in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference."

The only argument you can now make was the placement of Jeter on the play.

[ThaSaltCracka]

the things you cited are irrelavent. I will take Toro's explanation.

[ QUOTE ]
"While contact may occur between a fielder and runner during a tag attempt, a runner is not allowed to use his hands or arms to commit an obviously malicious or unsportsmanlike act."

[/ QUOTE ] This is referring to intentionally trying to injure another player, it has nothing to do with interference, which was what was called.

[ QUOTE ]
"If the umpire declares the batter, batter runner, or a runner out for interference, all other runners shall return to the last base that was in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference."

The only argument you can now make was the placement of Jeter on the play.

[/ QUOTE ] You are right about this, I only assumed Jeter was on second by the time the penalty occured. If he wasn't there then according to the rules he goes back to first.

[JinX11]

[ QUOTE ]
The mere fact that the person he is questioning signed up last night looks to have completely elluded him.

[/ QUOTE ]

As does a dictionary seem to have eluded you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

boooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Toro]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it different (if it actually is) with respect to a catcher at home? The common claim is that the catcher has blocked the plate and the runner has the right to proceed to home plate, but quite frequently it is obvious that the runner has altered their path away from directly trying to touch home plate and is deliberately and intentionally trying hit the catcher and dislodge the ball? Maybe it all comes down to judgment, but I think there are obvious cases where the runner is going after the catcher, not the plate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Steve actually explained this in the interview. The 45 foot box did not apply in this play because of where the ball was hit and Arod could have chosen any path from Home to First that he wanted(the path that he chooses becomes the baseline). And if he had chosen a path directly in line with Arroyo, contact with Arroyo would have been legal. But he didn't choose that path, he was running in a line that would not have resulted in bodily contact with Arroyo so when Arroyo reached out to tag, the action of trying to swipe the ball out of his glove was interference.

[Toro]

I heard the interview in my car this morning and I just remembered that I made a note of the manual section # Steve Palermo quoted and just went out and checked and indeed it was 6.1.