Does Torre get fired if Yankees lose game 7?

[mikeyvegas]

Just curious what others think on this.

[Toro]

Not a chance!

[ThaSaltCracka]

nope, if they lose its because they have average starting pitching and numbers 6-9 hitters that strike out entirely to much.

[mikeyvegas]

[ QUOTE ]
nope, if they lose its because they have average starting pitching and numbers 6-9 hitters that strike out entirely to much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying he would deserve it, but you never know what the Boss will do when he gets riled up.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[censored], he can fire him if he wants. Maybe Seattle will go after him then.

[sublime]

I'm not saying he would deserve it, but you never know what the Boss will do when he gets riled up.

face reality

sooner or later spending loads of cash on older veterens and trading away all your youth catches up with you

regardless of game 7 outcome, these are two great baseball teams

[andyfox]

I've been ragging on their starting pitching all year, but in fact, their starting pitching has been excellent this post-season. The only day it was bad they scored 19 runs. Leiber threw one bad pitch and, even so, held the Sox to 4 runs in 7 innings.

The problem with their starting pitching is that it was so mediocre all year, that Gordon and Rivera are not quite what they were earlier in the year. And Quantrill is nowhere near what he was.

[andyfox]

Rivera only threw 139 more pitches this year than in 2003. And he had a lower OPS against than in 2003.

And Gordon threw only 103 more pitches than he threw in 2003. And he to had a lower OPS against.

Gordon just hasn't pitched well in the post-season. And Rivera's two "blown" saves actually consist of allowing on ly one run in four appearances.

[andyfox]

I disagree. Rivera get the Sox out in the 9th inning of game 4 and we're talking about what a great team this was to dispatch a terrific Red Sox team in four straight. Matsui's drive in the 6th is two feet to the left and the series is over in five.

Don't misunderstand me: the team that deserved to win won every game this series. The Red Sox deserved to win the last three games.

But the Yankees have been in the playoffs ten straight years, been to six world series, and won four. They won 101 games this year, the most in the league. Steinbrenner is indeed spending loads of cash, but he's spending wisely.

[sublime]

is he spending it wisely, or does he have such a large margin for error that it doesn't matter?

[andyfox]

Lots of teams spent a lot of money in past year with little effect: the Orioles and Dodgers come to mind.

But look at what Steinbrenner did this year: They lost Clemens, Pettitte, and Wells who won 52 game last year. How many teams losing 3/4 of their starting rotation have won 101 games the following year? They got El Duque back, rehabilitated Leiber, and got 24 wins out of Brown/Vasquez.
Tom Gordon was a lifesaver. They had a weakness in right field and they got a great year out of Sheffield. Miguel Cairo hit .290 and played well. And the new third baseman wasn't bad.

They recognized their needs and got quality players to fill them.

[sublime]

They recognized their needs and got quality players to fill them.

Cmon!

Signing Bill Mueller is seeing a need and filling it with a quality player.

Taking a chance by signing Jon Leiber is risky/good GM work.

Getting Kevin Brown/Javier Vasquez/Alex Rodriguez/Gary Sheffield in ONE offseason is a tad overboard IMO and covers up mistakes that would DOOM most teams(giambi/contreras).

EDIT: I will concede that Brain Cashman is a good GM, but the NYY have amargin for error that FAR exceeds any other team.

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious what others think on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

All I know is, in the 8th inning, with 2 men on, and the winning run on 1B - why wasn't Kenny Lofton running for Ruben Sierra? Torre has done some strange things in this series by not using his bench.

[Neil Stevens]

You don't think Brown was a mistake himself?

Sure, almost anyone's better than Jeff Weaver the choke artist, but Brown is way too fragile to rely upon these days. How much of the season did he miss for the Yankees?

[andyfox]

They gave up a very good player for A-Rod. The Sox tried to get A-rod but screwed it up. Vasquez was a deal worked out with the MLB-owned Expos. And Weaver won more games with the Dodgers than Brown did with the Yankees. Sheffield was a free agent who apparently wanted to come to work for the Yankees, supposedly negotiating the deal directly with Steinbrenner, bypassing his own agent and Cashman.

Obviously, having $ solves a lot of trouble. But you still have to be smart.

[andyfox]

Not one substitution in the line-up for 35 innings now.

Sierra runs pretty good, BTW. And he's a smarter runner than Lofton, who took stupid pills before he got to the majors. (BTW, it was the 9th inning, and it was the tying run on 1st base.)

However, I would have hit for Clark. Yeah, I know, they don't have another first baseman, but Clark is the last guy I wanted to see up with a chance to do something. He's awful. Note that he struck out on an 89 MPH fast ball right down the middle.

Bernie's at bat was particularly terrible in the 9th inning. He knows Foulke is going to pitch him away, yet he doesnt look for anything away. When it got to two strikes, I told my son, watch, he's going to strike him out with a change-up. If I know it's coming, how come Bernie didn't?

[sublime]

Obviously, having $ solves a lot of trouble. But you still have to be smart.

Ohh no doubt they are a well run business, I just think that the free spending and future mortgaing WILL catch up with them.

Lowe vs Brown in game 7

Who has the more fragile state of mind? /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]

Taking a chance by signing Jon Leiber is risky/good GM work.

[/ QUOTE ] I don't think this particular move was a risky as people may think. TJ surgery has been proven to be very successful. The Yankees are one of the few teams able to spend the money though on a player that won't play for an entire year.

[nolanfan34]

You're right about the 9th inning.

I don't care if Sierra runs the bases "better", he can't be faster than Lofton, and most likely that speed would be needed on a double into the gap.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now, and you're right, Tony Clark sucks. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Every Red Sox fan had to get a little worried when he was batting though....if he had hit one out, as a former Sox bust...wow.

[John Gaspar]

[ QUOTE ]
Every Red Sox fan had to get a little worried when he was batting though....if he had hit one out, as a former Sox bust...wow.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right on this one. The only savin grace was that we realized it was only game 6. If it had been a game 7, my heart and stomach would have been in my throat.

This Sox team is not our father's team though. They've showed heart and resiliency. Even if they fall short in Game 7, they have made the post season a hell of a ride. Hoping tomorrow night is just as dramatic, even if it means a possible heart attack.

[Mike Gallo]

However, I would have hit for Clark. Yeah, I know, they don't have another first baseman, but Clark is the last guy I wanted to see up with a chance to do something. He's awful.

I think he played for the Mets, that would explain it. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Mike Gallo]

No way.

[mmbt0ne]

No way Torre gets fired. Cashman probably does though.

[andyfox]

Lowe certainly pitched better in his start than Brown did in his. I guess if Lowe gets in trouble we'll see Wakefield real quick, and maybe even Pedro for a few outs if needed. And if Brown doesn't have it, Vasquez, or maybe El Duque first.

As a Yankee fan, I dread the thought of the Giant Gag. As a baseball fan, it's a game of historic proportions. Unbelievable they could top last year's script, but they have.

[andyfox]

"even if it means a possible heart attack."

Stand in line.

[andyfox]

He's a good guy. Well-liked, goes out and does his best. But he's just a weak hitter agaist any kind of quality pitching. Lofton can still hit good pitching.

[andyfox]

It's rumored Cashman is leaving anyway. Steinbrenner has mellowed some, but it still must be pretty gruelling.

[John Gaspar]

The problem is I don't know what will cause the attack. A Yankee win or a Sox victory. Either way, I may be overcome.

[andyfox]

Yeah, it's the closeness of the game that causes the coronary. If the Yankees lose, 16-0, my heart will be broken, but it will mend. If the game is 1-0, either way, trouble.

Good night.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Does Torre get fired if Yankees lose game 7?

[/ QUOTE ]

Torre is in the last year of his contract. The general thought last year was that 2004 would be Torre's last season managing in New York regardless of what the results are.

I don't think he'll be back next year, especially if they lose to Boston.

[sublime]

Torre is in the last year of his contract. The general thought last year was that 2004 would be Torre's last season managing in New York regardless of what the results are.

Torre signed a contract extension during spring training.

I think it keeps him in NY thru 07, although I could be wrong.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
Torre is in the last year of his contract. The general thought last year was that 2004 would be Torre's last season managing in New York regardless of what the results are.

Torre signed a contract extension during spring training.

I think it keeps him in NY thru 07, although I could be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks like you're right.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4407948

NBCSports.com news services
Updated: 1:20 p.m. ET March 5, 2004

TAMPA, Fla. - For now, Joe Torre likes George Steinbrenner’s offer better than Arnold Palmer’s. The New York Post is reporting that the New York Yankees are on the verge of signing Torre to a two-year contract extension worth up to $16 million.

The New York Yankees manager was on a boat with the golf great in January, looking at whales in waters off Maui.

“He invited me to play golf with him over at Bay Hill,” Torre recounted Thursday, referring to the Florida golf course where Palmer hosts a tournament each March.

Of course, with spring training coming up, Torre turned him down. But, thinking ahead, Torre knew he was about to start the final season of his contract, and his relationship with Steinbrenner was strained throughout 2003.

“After this year, maybe I’ll be able to take you up on that,” Torre said to Palmer. “This could be my last year. I’d be able to retire.”

“Retire? How old are you?” Palmer told Torre.

“I said 63.”

“He said, ‘I’m 74. What does that have anything to do with it?”’

Torre started to think about managing New York beyond 2004, and Steinbrenner approached Torre when the manager arrived at spring training and asked about 2005.

“The thing that certainly opened the door to come back here was how George, the Yankees, initiated the whole concept,” Torre said before New York opened its spring training schedule with a 5-1 loss to the Philadelphia Phillies.

Steinbrenner has directed his son-in-law, general partner Stephen Swindal, to handle negotiations. The sides have talked about a two-year extension through 2006.

“I have said many times this spring how much I want Joe to come back,” Steinbrenner said in a statement. "It’s in Steve’s hands.”

Torre met with Swindal earlier in the week to begin negotiations on a contract extension.

“I am very encouraged that things are going well,” Swindall told the New York Post. “We have clearly made progress. He has made strong indications now he wants to manage the Yankees beyond this year and we want him back unequivocally.”

Torre has led the Yankees to four World Series titles and six AL pennants in eight years, their best success since the early 1960s, but Steinbrenner has grown antsy since New York’s last Series title, in 2000. Torre’s face showed strain last year, and he was angry when Steinbrenner overruled him and sent Jose Contreras to the minor league complex in Tampa rather than Triple-A Columbus.

“The stress, I think, last year wasn’t baseball. It was everything else,” Torre said. “I wasn’t having any fun. I was just wondering if this where I wanted to be, this is where they wanted me to be”

When Steinbrenner hired Torre in November 1995, it was the team’s 20th change in managers since he bought the Yankees in 1973. Torre’s tenure was been remarkable — he will be the first person to enter his ninth straight season as Yankees manager since Casey Stengel lasted from 1949-60.

Before last year, his relationship with Steinbrenner was good.

“I knew when I came here what it was like,” Torre said, “You don’t handle George — I don’t try to handle George — but we had more communication. We didn’t necessarily agree, and I don’t expect to continue to only agree, but last year, it became a little confrontational, and I didn’t like that.”

Then came that Feb. 18 conversation with Steinbrenner.

“It surprised me that early on, that George would come in and say, ‘What do you want to do next year?’ All of a sudden, my whole thinking had to change,” Torre said.

Steinbrenner and Torre have had several productive conversations since.

“Not that he’s not going to say something that may be against what I think, but I don’t think it’s going to get to the point where it got last year,” Torre said. “I think it will be kept more in-house, so to speak.”

Torre didn’t ask Steinbrenner to apologize for the events of 2003.

“I’m not looking to have any guarantees,” he said, knowing that Steinbrenner’s managers never get any. “I got my point across to him how difficult it was last year with the lack of understanding that we had, and I didn’t like that, and he acknowledged that.”

Torre’s decision also may cause pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre to change his mind about retirement. Stottlemyre wavered about coming back for this year until November, saying he felt “personally abused” last year. Still, he’s loyal to his manager and close friend.

“I won’t think about it until toward the end of the season,” Stottlemyre said. “A lot of it depends on what he does, no question.”

Some players have noticed a change in Torre this spring, especially since last month’s acquisition of AL MVP Alex Rodriguez.

“He rejuvenated himself. He seems up to me, bouncing around,” first baseman Jason Giambi said. “You can tell he’s really excited for the year.”

[andyfox]

In 1960, the Yankees had a manager in his sixties. He had been an unsuccessful manager earlier in his career with other teams, but he was tremendously successful with the Yankees, winning ten pennants in twelve years, and seven World Championships. His team had lost, unexpectedly, in the World Series, despite winning three games by scores of 16-3, 12-0 and 10-0. He was criticized for under- and mis-using his star pitcher, who had pitched the two shut-outs in the Series, but had goneonly 12-9 during the year, pitching, according to the critics, not often enough and not deep enough into the game.

And he was fired. The star pitcher went 25-4, 17-8, 24-7 and 17-6 the nexty four years, all pennant winning years under different managers.

I'd say the odds are against Torre being fired, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities. Another possibility is that he may resign, win or lose.