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View Full Version : KQs - playing when the flop misses you


topspin
10-19-2004, 10:33 PM
Here's a hand where I really didn't want to fold a big pot on what's a relatively non-scary board, unless UTG limped with a 2 (which is not impossible). HU does anyone bet the turn? Bet the river? (Fold/flat call the flop?)

Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (7 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Bez
10-19-2004, 10:38 PM
I'd take a pot-shot on the turn. I think it's worth it given the size of the pot.

ncboiler
10-19-2004, 10:51 PM
What is your read on UTG? You got him head up and now what? If he was semi bluffing (maybe just an ace) you are still well behind. I think you have to bet the turn and check/fold the river.

topspin
10-19-2004, 11:02 PM
UTG hasn't seemed too out of line thus far. After his flop raise, I put him on a mid pair or a flush draw, or possibly AQ/AJ-type overcards. (AK would probably have raised PF; AQ might have too.) A flush would certainly call a turn bet; overcards or a mid pair is a tossup.

My flop raise was mainly a free-card play to try to hit one of my overcards, hence I checked behind on the turn. On the river after UTG checks, a bet is probably only good against a busted A-high flush draw or overcards, but with the pot giving 7:1 in retrospect it might have been worth bluffing at it.

Any comments on why raising the turn is better than the river? (Or both?) Is bluffing the turn more effective because I haven't shown weakness by checking through? I'm still trying to find a happy line between playing too tight and chip spewing.

Bez
10-19-2004, 11:05 PM
As you've hinted at, I think betting the turn on a bluff is better than the river as it looks less like a bluff.

kurosh
10-20-2004, 06:24 AM
If he calls the turn raise and checks to you on river, bet again unimproved?

HajiShirazu
10-20-2004, 09:27 AM
I'd bet the turn and probably the river. UTG could have Axs of clubs. It's expensive, but you don't want to give him the free showdown if he does.

topspin
10-20-2004, 10:34 AM
Villain had AhQs.