The way to beat loose Brick & Mortar $4/8 games is:

[DonkeyKong]

please fill in your best tip or tips for an online guy headed to B&M soon... I play 5/10 Party Poker and can count the 6-way pots I have seen over the last few weeks on one hand... (maybe an exaggeration but want to get my loosey goosey game on before I visit the Orleans and Excalibur)...

thanks

[Photoc]

Buy and read Small Stakes Holdem by Ed Miller, David Sklansky and Mason Malmuth. This will give you a TON of insigh itno how to beat these low limit games.

[coolhandkuhn]

obviously you'll need to adjust your starting hands. Unsuited broadway cards go down in value when playing against a big field (note: I'm not saying you can't play them, but I would be raising less with AJ offsuit when I know I'm going to get six callers and will need to hit to win). Conversely, suited connectors go up in value. Pocket pairs can be played from any position when you are constantly seeing flops 6-7 ways for one bet. Bluffing isn't going to work. I'm sure you've played 1/2 and 2/4 online -- it's pretty much the same thing. Wait for good cards, pound when you have a hand, and don't be surprised at all the fish calling you, even when you can't fathom how a worse hand could call you (river, especially). Value bet, value bet, value bet. Good luck at the excalibur. I was there in May and found the 4-8 game they spread to be easier than their 2-6 spread limit game, though both were like shooting fish in a barrel. I'm sure you'll do just as well.

[BottlesOf]

Don't string bet/raise. Tip the dealer a buck every pot you drag.

[NLSoldier]

Read SSH.

[dotJim]

two great points. I'll just add that you don't want to be called for a string raise because: its illegal, the raise won't stand, and the other players will have free information about your hand. So, to protect your ability to raise, the simplest thing is to always announce "raise" and that way you'll never string it. Another difference playing live vs. online is that you'll need to protect your hole cards by putting a chip on top of them.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
you'll need to protect your hole cards by putting a chip on top of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are sitting next to the dealer that is.... If not, keeping your hands over the cards when anything is happening near your position will most likely protect them. Lots of players don't use a chip as a protector, I choose not to use one because for some people it draws attention to my hand.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

With apologies for adding no real substance to this thread...

Read SSH and do what Ed says to do.

[Flashy]

I played in the wildest looset $4-8 B&M game last night with 2 drunks raising and reraising each other with absolute nothing. Average pot size was probably $180 although I am sure we topped $300 for a couple.

The player on my right constantly bitched about how this game wasn't poker. (He wasn't as good a player as he thought.) I thought it was one of the best games ever. Took out over $700 in six hours.

SSH is a great place to learn, but here are some points of emphasis.

Think hard before rasing pre-flop, do you really want a capped pot? In a loose game, people will reraise you if there are more than 5 people with very little, and then some other joker reraise and than there is a cap. That's maybe ok if you have A-Q suited, not so good with A-Q unsuited.

Learn the betting patterns at the table and take advantage of them to build pots or drive people out. (Bet into a maniac and let him raise to get rid of callers.)

Watch people hand movements pre-flop and you can usually tell if they are comming in on the flop. Also whether or not they plan on folding on subsequent rounds.

Anyone who tells you they are going to "have to raise" this one time usually has the goods. There are a lot of tells in a live game.

Call down with anything heads up, I won one pot with Ace high and another with an unimproved pair of 4s.

Accept that there will be wild swings in your bankroll.

Don't get caught up in the gambling fever. It will infect you more than you think in a live game versus online.

Finally, leave many of your bluff moves at home. The biggest mistake I see online players make at a B&M is thinking they can buy their way to a pot. It only works on occasion, and usually the table is quick to pick up on it if you over abuse the previlege. Then you will find someone like me beating you with a pair of 4s in a $200 pot.

Good luck

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
Finally, leave many of your bluff moves at home. The biggest mistake I see online players make at a B&M is thinking they can buy their way to a pot. It only works on occasion, and usually the table is quick to pick up on it if you over abuse the previlege. Then you will find someone like me beating you with a pair of 4s in a $200 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is good advice. After venturing back into a B&M after playing online for a while, I found quickly that I couldn't push people off of bottom/middle pair hands in pots that I'd raised PF but hadn't connected with. Be aware that your chance of getting called down is greater, as a lot of live players are going to call down with any piece of the board and any draw. That's great when you have a good hand, but an unimproved AK has little chance of holding up when 3 people are calling you down to the river.

I'd also say in low limit games, if the play post flop is generally passive, that you should respect post flop raises a little more than you would online. Most live players aren't sophisticated enough to raise for a free card on the flop, or jam the pot with a big draw. Many times when they raise it means top-pair or better.

Obviously a maniac will raise with anything, but your typical low limit L/P player isn't raising without a decent holding.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't string bet/raise. Tip the dealer a buck every pot you drag.

[/ QUOTE ]

how exactly do you "string bet" in limit poker? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[KowCiller]

Without saying anything, reach for your chips and place the amount to "call", reach back to your chips, place an equal amount as a raise.

Limit or otherwise that's a string bet...Since you probably know this already, where's the confusion/semantic difference that you're referring to?

KoW

[jmark]

[ QUOTE ]
where's the confusion/semantic difference that you're referring to?


[/ QUOTE ]

He was trying to say that it should be a string raise, not string bet.

To the OP: Maybe you could play some 0.5/1.00 on party to get some practice in.

[Victor]

Small Stakes Hold em

[Lurshy]

Watch out for the rocks. In even the loosest games, there are usually a few sharks that sit tight and work only with premium cards or hands that can make the nuts. Where you may call (or raise) a LAG with a TP high kicker, don't call the rock, especially if he was calling and the draw hit the board. Even if they learn you'll let go for an extra bet, you will use it to trap them later when you do have the nuts. Conversely, watch for people who call with poor hands, and extract the extra bet when you can.

Don't be suckered into drawing for non-nut hands (e.g. Jack high Flush, low end of a str8). If you are going to draw, draw for the nuts. If you miss, get out early, don't chase.


Be very observant.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]

Read SSH and do what Ed says to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good repeat of a reply that has already been made, hehe.

[fishman]

Two words: Tight, Aggressive.

[Lurshy]

Couple of other things, 4-8 B&M, may be more equivalent to 1-2 on-line, you may want to drop down and get used to the action.