What is the best way to get started.....

[Tom23]

About two month's ago I started planning my first trip to Las Vegas. I was really looking forward to going with one exception, I'm not a good gambler. I never liked playing games that I have little chance to win at; slot machines, blackjack, craps, ext. (After reading some poker books I think you would call these negative EV bets). I grew up close to Atlantic City so I've gambled a few times before with the expected results. So I got smart. To make a long story short I began doing a little research
, mainly on blackjack to see if it was a beatable game. As I'm sure you know, perfect play still leaves the house a slight advantage unless you count cards. That wasn't good enough for me. I wanted the edge, and I didn't think counting cards was a real answer to my problem since its really frowned upon. While I was browsing the internet for BJ info. poker kept popping up on a lot of the websites. The more I read, the better I liked it. It looked like a beatable game. So I bought some books and started reading, and reading, and then a little more reading. Finally I figured I was ready and went to Atlantic City for my first live game. Oh yeah, I had been playing a lot of play money and micro stakes on the computer. After that first night I became completely addicted to the action. I have been studying ever since and I made my Vegas trip. I played as often as I could. Since the beggining I honestly can't say I have won at all, but I really have lost very little and had a blast playing. But I know with practice I can become a winning player. So here are my questions:

1) What is the most logical way to really learn Hold'em correctly? For example; To learn to hit a baseball, a)you need a balanced proper stance b) The right grip on the bat c) Keep your eye on the ball and so on. Is there a logical progression to learning poker? All the books I have read like Lee Joneses Low Limit book are very good but I think I have become overwhelmed with information. What I am looking for is an order; a)hand selection b)position c)EV for a any given hand d)tells and telegraghs e) card reading. Should I master one thing at a time before moving?

2) Is tournament hold'em better to learn than ring games? Unfortunately I haven't been able to build up much of a bank roll yet as you would expect, so I really don't have the cash required for say the 2-4 spread limit I have been playing. It is suggested you need 500x the big bet. I can buy into a 20$ tournament and at least start off equal to the other players and not play scared.

3)I seem to do a lot better in live games than I do on the internet. I think its because I need to see the people I'm playing against. Does anyone have the same problem? Atlantic City doesn't have any real low limit games 2-4 is the lowest. The internet offers the micro stakes but I really don't enjoy it as much as the live action. Like I mentioned before I don't have the bankroll yet for the swings of the live games like 2-4 spread limit stakes.

4)Should I focus on one game "period" or learn Omaha and stud also? Would tournament play and ring games conflict to much if I tried to do both? Sometimes diversity helps!

5) Finally, seating at the tables. The low limit AC games are usually full so you can't adjust your seating at the tables in relation to different players, you can't even pick what table you want to play most of the time. What is the best way to deal with this situation? Its a long ride to not play at all because you can't find the right table as suggested in Sklansky's books.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rudbaeck]

1) Play, read, play, read. Rinse and repeat. Do a search for the "Clarkmeister rotation" for a good reading course. Then start posting hands in the micro forum.

2) Learn ring game first. There are many better books, and you always have a game to practice in no matter the time of day.

3) You don't need to see your opponents to crush them. Solid play wins big in poker in everything but the absolutely toughest games. And 2/4 or even 20/40 online isn't exactly the toughest games.

4) Work on one game at a time. If you feel swamped with hold'em info then don't swamp yourself with more games. Pick one up when you feel you need to diversify.

5) Any table below 10/20 is going to be pretty good unless something really weird has happened. There are going to be several weak players there to milk, there are still signficantly more weak players at any given table at 3/6 online than there are good players. (In general there are 1-3 good players, and the rest are various species of bad.) In general online games are way tighter than the same limit live.

[helpmeout]

Dont expect to master things overnight. Just keep reading and posting hands. Play the nano limits and keep taking information in and gaining experience.

After a few months fulltime things will start to click. You'll still be weak in some areas but eventually you will start putting it together and easily crush the low limit games.

[Mangatang]

My advice for any beginner has always been to start out with Lee Jones' book, Winning Low Limit Hold'em. His advice is "ABC" poker:

Bet/raise with a good hand
Chase draws only when you have the pot odds to do so
Fold bad/mediocre hands
Don't get fancy (don't bluff or slowplay)

Playing "ABC" poker will show a profit against almost all low limit games. The key to low limits is patience and discipline.

I also recommend starting out at the micro-limit tables online ($.05/.10, .10/.20, .25/.50, etc.). That way you can work on your game and practice what you've read, while you're building a bankroll, without ever risking much of your own money. You can gain an almost free poker education that used to cost people thousands of dollars.

Speaking of bankroll, that's another key concept that will help you succeed. Always play within your bankroll. If you try to play limits too high for your money, you'll be broke before you know it.

The way I actually practiced, was to go back and reread the Lee Jones book, one section at a time. Then practice that exact section at the micro-limits for a week. I would concentrate on that one section (Example: what to do when you flop top pair / good kicker) while I play. I would take note of every time that situation came up and follow the book's advice for that specific situation. After a week or so, I would see that situation come up many times.

After I felt comfortable with that lesson, I would go on to the next section in the book. Then I would spend a week playing and using that advice (on top of the already learned advise). Then repeat until the entire book is complete. By the end, you will have covered all the major hold'em considerations and you will have hundreds or thousands of hours of table experience under your belt.

If you did this starting at the micro-limits with $20 or $30 and moving up the limits whenever you hit 300 big bets, after 6 months, you will be a solid low limit player and have a bankroll big enough ($2,000+) to play and beat any $3/6 or $5/10 table.

[ILL34GL3]

Hi Tom

I'm a novice myself and suggest lots of practice at a reasonable limit, and reading lots of books. Poker books are expensive compared to other books but money spent this way is a lot easier on the wallet than learning this deceivingly difficult game the hard way. My favorites are Ken Warren's Winner's Guide to Texas Holdem and Sklansky's new Small Stakes Holdem (you can order it from this website). Keep in mind these books aren't geared toward spread limit. I suggest finding structured limit games as odds are easier to figure in such a game. Keep in mind that the strategy for a tourney is much different than a ring game and have yet to find a good limit tourney book. One piece of advice for single table tourneys is play extremely tight during the first two levels. To many idiots are playing crap and sucking out with junk. Let them pick each other off and keep your chip count at a reasonable level so you can fire away when the stakes become more substantial. Hope this helps and good luck.

[Evan]

1) Read books (starting with Winning Low Limit Hold'em is good) and play a lot (plan to lose money for a while).

2) No. A good bankroll for a winning player is about 300BB.m You're probably not a winning player now (not a bad thing) so there is no way I could tell you how much money you need. If you can't afford 2/4 then you couls play online (.5/1 at Party or as low as .02/.04 elsewhere). If you can't come up with the money to play then maybe you shouldn't be playing now.

3) You don't need to see the people you're playing against, poker is not a game of looking into someone's soul. Live games tend to be softer at comparable limits. Once again, if you don't have to bankroll and you don't want to lose all your money than you can't play...just the way the game works.

4) Learn one game at a time.

5) There is not a single 2/4 table in AC that is a bad table. I've never played 2/4 in AC so I can't tell you where's best, but I've never seen a 4/8, 6/12 or 7.50/15 game that I didnt like.

[ewile]

definitly take advantage of the opportunity that the online game affords you to learn to play Poker at a minimal risk.

The micro-limits bore you...well that's fine. Take the challenge of starting with a small buy in and building up and EARNING your poker bankroll.

I bought in for $75 and now have a dedicated poker bankroll of over $2,000 and I've cashed out many times that amount. The learning that I did building up can not be replaced!!

So, as others have said, read and practice and keep doing it. You'll get there. Use this forum to it's fullest.
Good luck.

[Bez]

[ QUOTE ]
You're probably not a winning player now (not a bad thing)

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I missing something?

[Mangatang]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're probably not a winning player now (not a bad thing)

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. Nobody starts out a winning player.

[Evan]

Did you start out winning? I didn't, I don't know anyone that did. Poker is not a game of intuition or natural ability, it's an aquired skill.

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
1) What is the most logical way to really learn Hold'em correctly?

[/ QUOTE ]

playing is the best lesson - you should read a few obvious books

[ QUOTE ]
2) Is tournament hold'em better to learn than ring games?

[/ QUOTE ]

learn both

[ QUOTE ]
3)I seem to do a lot better in live games than I do on the internet

[/ QUOTE ]

i get the opposite but i usually play 3-4 games at once

[ QUOTE ]
4)Should I focus on one game "period" or learn Omaha and stud also?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you should start with one but aim to play them all

[ QUOTE ]
5) Finally, seating at the tables. The low limit AC games are usually full so you can't adjust your seating at the tables in relation to different players, you can't even pick what table you want to play most of the time. What is the best way to deal with this situation? Its a long ride to not play at all because you can't find the right table as suggested in Sklansky's books

[/ QUOTE ]

i wouldnt stress too much about table selection at low limits because most games include several players you should be beating with a decent grip on the fundamentals

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Tom23]

Thanks for your comments, I will probably order the books suggested today. I'm going to stay in the low limits online for a while and stay away from the casino's. I can have some good references right in front of me and take notes while I play. Thanks again !!!!!!!!!!

[deception5]

I'd also recommend checking out mangatang's site: www.kingscascade.com (http://www.kingscascade.com) and looking at his poker section, he lays out a solid plan for moving up (and down) in limits and has a great program to help you learn the starting hands!

[lorinda]

3)I seem to do a lot better in live games than I do on the internet.

Internet games at the same level are tougher than those live.

Remember, these people have taken the time to locate and download and fund an account.
Although they are often still poor players, they are poor players who really rather WANT to play holdem.

Lori