Orchard Street Rumors

[Se0ultrain]

I know this is mentioned in another thread but I would like to address this is more depth if possible. I know some friends of mine have expressed similar suspicions about rigged dealing there. What are some of your experiences with this at the club and how legit do you think these claims are? Plus, how would you base deal with a cut card and how can I look out for it just in case? Thanks in advance.

[Luv2DriveTT]

All this talk about mechanics are overblown.... there are mechanics in every major card room across the USA. Its a part of the game, good players are hardly affected by it.

1) drop the cut card. Most players wouldn't know the difference.

2) If you are a good player dealing from the bottom of the deck wouldn't affect you much at all, since you only play premium hands. In the worst case scenario it might make you give up your blinds more often, nothing more.

If you want to make sure this doesn't happen in your game, you can do the following:

a) insist that the players shuffle the decks first before the dealer

b) make sure the dealer picks up the cards facing the table. In England the dealers do it with the cards facing themselves, but in the US the standard way is facing the players

There is an interesting side effect of dealing an Ace off the bottom of the deck, the player who is delt the Ace may not have a premium kicker, which means if they are loose enough to ram and jam (they usually are if they are willing to cheat) with A4o then you might have a sucker waiting to be beat.

TT in da club /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Luv2DriveTT]

I almost forgot. If you catch someone doing this, Tell Ed that you are going to out him on 2+2 and RPG. I'm sure the dealer won't ever see another card room again without some broken bones, there are some ruff charecters that hang out at Wall Street!

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[jayadd]

how about just playing somewhere else?

about 8 cardrooms in NYC and plenty just outside of NYC its not that hard to find a game.



www.geocities.com/racentourfd/socialclub.html (http://www.geocities.com/racentourfd/socialclub.html)

[Luv2DriveTT]

When NYC based players can take a 5 minute ride on the A train to Secaucus, then your room will become very busy! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[jayadd]

[ QUOTE ]

When NYC based players can take a 5 minute ride on the A train to Secaucus, then your room will become very busy!

[/ QUOTE ]

i wasnt saying "hey come play at my club" i suggested just not going to orchard street place. i play at NYPC and PS cause i fell comfortable playing there compared to other places i have played in the city which i wont name.

Btw we are not looking to become very busy its not a NYPC kind of place. The 2+2er's who come down and play understand this.

www.geocities.com/racentourfd/socialclub.html (http://www.geocities.com/racentourfd/socialclub.html)

[Luv2DriveTT]

Funny thing is you will see me there very soon. I live close enough to NJ that the A train factor doesn't concern me.

PS: Another room just opened up in NYC.... 5th Ave around 28th Street. Open 6 days a week, 4 tables.

TT

[bigfishead]

[ QUOTE ]
there are mechanics in every major card room across the USA.

[/ QUOTE ]

This guy is full of [censored]. I have been in and around the poker room business since I was 12 yrs old. Thats over 30yrs. I have known some of the old mechanics. I have known some of the old thieves in the business. That was a long time ago before owners found out how much they could make when Texas Holdem became prevelant. (tho in the early 80's the Stardust was known for cold decking).

Nowadays most of your MAJOR card rooms are run by poker room managers that like to look themselves in the mirror when they get up and wouldnt think twice about a dealer facing criminal charges and losing his license which would of course mean they couldnt get a license anywhere.

Also, most jursidictions take licensing very seriously. Hell some areas/states dont allow a dealer a license with unpaid income taxes. And forget it if you have an unpaid ticket. Criminal backgrounds? very very tough to get licensed. Hey I know one dealer, she is clean as a mouse, very very nice girl, 35ish. Had a credit card fraud thing she was involved with when she was 17 and stupid. She co-operated with the feds, charges were dropped, and yet she still cannot get a license in MS. Even tho the feds sent MS. Gaming Commision the recomendation she be allowed to be licensed.

The BS about "Mechanics" in every major cardroom across the country, is just that. BS

[Luv2DriveTT]

bigfishead:

Before you get on your high horse, read my prior post reguarding the same location in this forum. Just because someone is capable of being a mechanic, doesn't mean he or she is actually doing the dirty work. Yes cheaters exist, but 99.9% of the time is is without the knowlege of the card room's owners (on that we fully agree). And just because someone has cheated one or twice in their lives doesn't mean they do it every time. In short it is mostly a non-issue, even in the underground rooms. Its good to know it exists, nothing more.

PS: in casue you are not aware, the discussion was in reference to an underground card room in NYC, where poker is assumed to be illegal. Juristiction here means nothing... there is no lisencing, no watchful eye by the government.

[jayadd]

the players at our club are not from NYC but play there often. The biggest problem with nyc poker places is the turnover of players at a table. I rather play with the same 9 guys at my table for 6 hours than have 3-4 new players switch in and out every 2 hours.


http://www.geocities.com/racentourfd/socialclub.html

[Se0ultrain]

Well,

From what I heard about Orchard Street, the owners/bosses were involved in it. Ie, asking a patron where he's from, if he's from out of town, then they "mark" him and inform the dealer? I don't know. Ultimately, probably more paranoia than truth but even so, has to get you wondering...

[bigfishead]

I understand what you said. But you stated "in every major card room across the country." Thats just bullshit. Thats something you have no clue about.

go to an illegal room, and you get what ya get. No comment about that.

[Luv2DriveTT]

Taken in context of the conversation, I am correct. Taken out of context of the conversation you are correct. Together, we are correct. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

TT

[MRBAA]

PS and Skylight are well run in NYC. Can't say the same about NYPC, although the 1-2 no limit games there can be very live. They run wide open and there are hassles pretty much every time I'm there. Was there Monday and saw someone go in the office to talk about "stealing" in the 10-20 game with Edgar and the other manager (forget his name). I like playing there cause it's convenient and usually has plenty of games. But I don't think it's very well run.

[Derek in NYC]

What limit holdem are they spreading at Skylight? The PS 4/8 is good also, but is it the same game at Skylight?

BTW, I agree with what you're saying about PS being the best run poker room.

[turnipmonster]

only NL, 1-2 with a 500 max, 2-5 with a 1k max and occasionally a 10-25 with no max. the 2-5 is sporadic at best /images/graemlins/frown.gif.

--turnipmonster

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
only NL, 1-2 with a 500 max, 2-5 with a 1k max and occasionally a 10-25 with no max. the 2-5 is sporadic at best /images/graemlins/frown.gif.

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]
They also spread 6-12 on a nightly basis, though I'm not sure it goes all the time, and I think they're trying a 20-40 weekly, maybe Wednesdays, can't remember.

[turnipmonster]

really? I haven't seen any game but NL go in months.

--turnipmonster

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
really? I haven't seen any game but NL go in months.
--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't been there in months, but I played 6-12 there a few times. Maybe it just doesn't go anymore.

[MRBAA]

Only n/l at Skylight now. They often have several 1/2 n/l tables, though.

[bdk3clash]

There was a sign up at The Club That Shall Not Be Named (But Which Has Been Named In This Thread) indicating that Skylight is closing "for the winter," and that NL games would move to The Club That Shall Not Be Named.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
PS and Skylight are well run in NYC. Can't say the same about NYPC

[/ QUOTE ]

Its interesting how two people can have exactly the opposite opinion. I don't like the management at PS, but I think they do a great job of trying to make the players feel comfortable at PC. I also feel PS has the most surly customers, it feels as if everyone is looking for an argument.

Now don't get me wrong, I have experianced arguments at PC as well. But that is to be expected with so many customers, its bound to happen. But the management at PC goes out of its way to make sure I am happy, and that means a lot to me.

Skylight - I haven't been there since mid summer for a tournament. How was their recent business? Its such a big room, I was surprised to see that most players left right after the tournament.

Rounders - has anyone been at this new room yet? Staff is mostly from PS I have been told.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[sfer]

PS and Skylight run efficiently. The lists are clear, the games go, and everything is in order. NYPC is utter chaos. And getting a limit game at NYPC going is the equivalent of a full rectal exam. I played a self-dealt 5/10 game there where they still took time, despite the fact that they had plenty of dealers. They don't have interest in getting a regular limit game or cultivating regular limit players there.

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
PS and Skylight run efficiently. The lists are clear, the games go, and everything is in order. NYPC is utter chaos. And getting a limit game at NYPC going is the equivalent of a full rectal exam. I played a self-dealt 5/10 game there where they still took time, despite the fact that they had plenty of dealers. They don't have interest in getting a regular limit game or cultivating regular limit players there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, thats my biggest complaint about PC, but every once in a great while we can get one going. I haven't been there much in the past two months, too busy traveling & doing business to get uptown. But I wouldn't call it utter chaos... Its interesting that I seem to be one of the few here that has had bad PS experiancs. Perhaps I should give it another chance, my biggest complaint was always the bad attitude of the players. Nobody wants to play against surly people, its just a bad enviroment when that happens.

I'm going to try Rounders late tonight, they said they have a 5/10 game, and a 7.50/15 game running. Sound like fun.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[sfer]

PS does have surly, unhappy players, but that has nothing to do with the management of the room.

[Beezos]

been to a few of these places multiple times... most recently Rounders. it seemed nice. i guess its relatively new. they only had 4 tables and spread relatively few games. the management seemed very nice. i would like to go back bc of its proximity to where i live. my favorite place is the skylite (also the closest). the patrons there are very friendly considering it is a strictly NL parlor. the management is very friendly and its run pretty well. theres usually not muc going on there. 2 tables max on non tourney days. i always wonder how they manage to profit or even breakeven. unfortunatley it is closed for the winter. another hop skip and a jump away is the playstation. i been there a bunch and decided i dont like it much. the clientel is very skeevy, shady, dirty etc. theres always one old annoying person who doesnt really know whats going on, a dirty, ugly or scary looking person, or some fat jackass who wont shutup at your table. i must say it is run very well and the dealers are top notch but i get the worst feeling playing there. it makes me feel liek a degenerate. and than there is the players club. i kinda like this place. the managers are pretty cool, and the clientel is young. the games are loose, and the decor/atmosphere is nice. the dealers are satisfactory and organization is decent. the tourneys are organized very well with computers tho. its kind of far for me but worth the trip...

ive never been to ace point. i want to check it out. if someone has info on it please get back to me. never been to orchard st or wall st (same place?) either but i guess i dont want to after hearing what people have to say

beez

[sfer]

Curious about Ace Point? Try this! (http://www.google.com)

[bdk3clash]

Or this even. (http://www.acepointclub.com/)

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
another hop skip and a jump away is the playstation. i been there a bunch and decided i dont like it much. the clientel is very skeevy, shady, dirty etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
Look, SFer puts a full day of work in before he gets there. Go easy on him.
[ QUOTE ]
theres always one old annoying person who doesnt really know whats going on

[/ QUOTE ]
MRBAA
[ QUOTE ]
a dirty, ugly or scary looking person

[/ QUOTE ]
Me.
[ QUOTE ]
or some fat jackass who wont shutup at your table.

[/ QUOTE ]
Me, except for being a fatass.
[ QUOTE ]
i must say it is run very well and the dealers are top notch

[/ QUOTE ]
Some are good, a few are great, some are terrible. Rich, Bridgette, Francis, good. Bobby and Seahorse, while nice guys, not so good.

[ QUOTE ]
but i get the worst feeling playing there. it makes me feel liek a degenerate.

[/ QUOTE ]
Embrace it.
[ QUOTE ]
and than there is the players club. i kinda like this place. the managers are pretty cool, and the clientel is young. the games are loose, and the decor/atmosphere is nice. the dealers are satisfactory and organization is decent. the tourneys are organized very well with computers tho. its kind of far for me but worth the trip...

[/ QUOTE ]
Since I don't play a lot of no limit for several reasons, most of them relating to how badly I suck, NYPC isn't really my place. I've been known to donk around in their tournaments, which I admit are well run and fun. But they can't get a limit game going to save their lives, and they don't seem to care, because everyone wants to play "no limit" anyway. (I use the quotes because of the maximum buyins.)
[ QUOTE ]
ive never been to ace point. i want to check it out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Never been there.
[ QUOTE ]
never been to orchard st or wall st (same place?) either but i guess i dont want to after hearing what people have to say

[/ QUOTE ]
I've been there once (yes, same place), and it's fine. The only rumors of shadiness are from two posts on this board. In my opinion there weren't any shenanigans going on at the $4-8 game SFer and I played in, other than some braindead plays I made of my own volition.

[fryKing]

[ QUOTE ]
Rich, Bridgette, Francis, good. Bobby and Seahorse, while nice guys, not so good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Bridgette pitches cards at about the same speed as PartyPoker with the animations on. And then she berates the players into acting quickly.

It's great.

[sfer]

Big Bobby is a slow dealer. Bobby G is pretty good. fryking is right. Bridgette berating slow players into acting faster and calling them "Honey" rules.

[bdk3clash]

I don't like it when Bobby G. deals because it means he isn't playing.

[Luv2DriveTT]

I'm going to play Rounders late tonight, supposedly its a lot of the old staff of PS. Any ocmments?

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to play Rounders late tonight, supposedly its a lot of the old staff of PS. Any ocmments?

[/ QUOTE ]
I've only dropped in there once and they had a $5/10 PL game going, and that was it. I think they poached most of the Club That Shall Not Be Named's pot limit game. Supposedly they have other games but I've never played in them.

[fryKing]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to play Rounders late tonight, supposedly its a lot of the old staff of PS. Any ocmments?

[/ QUOTE ]
The one time I was there, they had a 7.50/15 "pink" game going with like 4 guys. Somehow I managed to decline their invitation to join them.

[sfer]

Well I went back over the weekend with 2 other 2+2ers. A bunch of regulars from other clubs were playing 10/20 and 20/40. They are savvy players. Also, I talked to two former dealers from two other clubs, one working, one playing.

Now I'm totally convinced there is like zero cheating there and that certain people are paranoid.

[Luv2DriveTT]

Strange timing SFer... I visited PS once again after numerous PM's advising me to get over the bad attitudes of the players. And you know what? They were right...

I think my previous visits were on bad days, I had too small a smaple size to judge so early. I still prefer NYPC's staff, management, chips & tables (ugh... the PS tables are horrible!) but the play was so loose I turned an 8 BB/hour profit in 2.5 hours playing at a table which was filled the same regulars I have seen at many other rooms around town, and three PS dealers - very profitable and loosey goosey indeed!

SFer - did you play the 4/8 game at WS? Was it filled with guys who raise with nothing, and straddle every chance they get? You gotta love that about a room, WS seems to be like that every time I stop by.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[sfer]

Yeah, PS is very good. I got pummelled on Saturday but you're always 2 pots away from a good night.

The Wall St game was way loose/passive the last time I was there. 5-7 ways to the flop, sometimes for a raise, and 3 payoff stations to every showdown. It was Foxwoods good.

[BottlesOf]

I completely agree about your PS vs. NYPC assesment. I went with SFer this weekend to WS and have to say I was really impressed. The game was great and I really liked the room. Being in a big apt. with a kitchen makes you feel like you're at a home game. The tables were quite good, and the chips were really top notch. The dealers were friendly too. I'll def. be back. It's too bad NYPC makes minimal effort to spread LHE.

[turnipmonster]

I played two hands of 10/20 the other night. one of them featured me raising UTG and 6 cold callers. it was simply divine.

--turnipmonster

[Evan]

Why'd you only play 2 hands?

[turnipmonster]

game I was waiting for started.

[Luv2DriveTT]

E & B say they will spread it anytime there is an interest, but there is never any interest. Its like the old statement, which came first - the chicken or the egg?

I am going to call E this week to say if the ever are 1 or 2 players short to start a limit game, I'll be there in 1 hour. Unfortunatly I doubt I will be getting many calls.

SFer - interesting... I have never seen a passive game at WS, they are always hyper-aggressive and very juicy. Raisy McRaiser is a regular, if ya know what I mean. The biggest straddle & re-straddle fish at my last table was one of the managing dealers, it was hysterical - and profitable.

So... while we are on the topic.... perhaps we 2+2'ers should semi-officialy agree to meet once a week for a 4/8 game at one of these fine rooms. If we get 6 of us to commit, we could remain at NYPC (since they have the most tables)... if not, we can meet up at any of the other rooms. I think I can talk Ed into letting Evan play at WS, so that could be another option as well.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[sfer]

E&B is now just E.

[Luv2DriveTT]

E is better than B, life is good!

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[BottlesOf]

My main problem is that NYPC doesn't try to develop an interest in playing limit amongst their players. There are ways of doing this.

They are "willing" to spread it sure, but they don't really care if it doesn't go. And when it does go, they seem to find ways to shaft it.