Experimenting -- 65 30+3 SNGs played

[Jason Strasser]

I figured a few of you might be interested in this. After having taken a break from poker in general at school, I decided to play a few sngs over the last week. Instead of moving back to my normal level, I decided to work my way up (accelerated). So, I have played 65 30 sngs on party, and have decided to move up to the 50s.

At first, I had to make adjustments. Many people at this level will do very interesting things. For example. Some people at 100/200 level will open limp in MP with a 1400 stack with a hand like JTs, and then call an all-in. Big stacks at this level are more inclined to call big bets with absolute crap preflop, especially early on.

Anyhow, here are the results:

1st - 10 times
2nd - 9 times
3rd - 6 times
4th - 10 times
5th - 6 times
6th - 7 times
7th - 6 times
8th - 5 times
9th - 3 times
10th - 3 times

ROI 24.47%
ITM 38.46%
Profit $525

I feel like my ROI would be about 8-10% higher long term, provided that I maintained the adjustments I had made. Obviously 65 is a small sample size, so my actual numbers are quite useless.

Anyhow, now my comments pertaining to most of the questions on this board will have more value, because I have a better feel for what's going on in these types of games.

-Jason

[lorinda]

Anyhow, now my comments pertaining to most of the questions on this board will have more value, because I have a better feel for what's going on in these types of games.


That's really good news for the forum /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hopefully some of my weird plays make a bit more sense now /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Lori

[The Yugoslavian]

Jason,

I actually watched you play a few 30/3 games this morning and it looked like you were still playing a fairly toned down style (from what I've read of your posts on ur 200/15 games posted on 2+2).

Did you spend more time waiting for value hands before going allin (the only couple times I noticed you allin you had good hands)?

I'd be interested to hear what the general adjustments you felt were necessary in stepping down to a 30/3 game?

[Desdia72]

true to form, either 1st or 4th. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[durron597]

I see you busted out early quite a few times. I thought I was the only one who did that. Do you have any thoughts as to why?

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
I see you busted out early quite a few times. I thought I was the only one who did that. Do you have any thoughts as to why?


[/ QUOTE ]

Finishing about 17% of the time in the last 3 places looks very normal to me. And it's also a very small sample, so these results are not really a great indicator.

[PrayingMantis]

Jason, I agree with your general observations - the lower you go in buy-ins, the more careful you should be about applying aggressiveness - that's because you'll get more and more bad calls, when you really don't need them. I think this is the most important thing - value bet more, bluff less. Sounds pretty simple, but I'm sure (and know) it's pretty difficult to play this way after a relatively long period of playing higher buy-ins.

As to your ROI, I'm positive you can get higher results after adjusting better, but you'll probably won't stay too much there, so it doesn't really matter.

[Jason Strasser]

My hyped up super aggressive style is a product of the information I tend to post on this board from my perspective. I definitely think there are times to do some crazy stuff, and I often ask this board what I think about it. But in general, I'm just a very tight tournament player, who has moments where he may be considered clinically insane.

In terms of adjusting to the 30+3, I just had to get used to being called more. So early on I was pushing too hands and getting called. Situations where we are 4 handed and I put someone in for all their chips, is usually a guaranteed fold unless the other person had a very good hand. But at this level, people were willing to risk it all with A4o, K9s, etc. Which means that my xx offsuit needed some work to catch up.

-Jason

[Jason Strasser]

Generally my bustouts at this stage are of the premium hand vs premium hand variety. More people see flops earlier in the tournament, so I suspect that there is more chance you will lose. I tend to back any overpair with my stack, because it is usually the right move. So generally these finishes way out of the money are KK to AA, QQ to AA/KK (which I will play for my stack against these nutjobs), AK flopping an ace and losing to straight draw, etc. It didnt feel like it happened a ton though--just about the expected rate.

-Jason

[Jason Strasser]

Here are some hands I thought were interesting.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (5 handed)

SB (t1600)
BB (t325)
UTG (t1250)
MP (t3290)
Hero (t1535)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t275</font>, SB calls t225, BB folds.

Flop: (t650) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets t250</font>, Hero calls t250.

Turn: (t1150) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets t100</font>, Hero calls t100.

River: (t1350) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets t700</font>, Hero calls t700.

Final Pot: t2750

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed)

UTG (t330)
Button (t2880)
Hero (t3580)
BB (t1210)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t3580 (All-In)</font>, BB calls t810 (All-In).

Flop: (t4790) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t4790) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t4790) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t4790

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero has Qh 7h (one pair, kings).
BB has 7s 7c (two pair, kings and sevens).
Outcome: BB wins t2420. Hero wins t2370. </font>

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed)

SB (t900)
BB (t705)
UTG (t3550)
Hero (t2845)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t300, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t2845 (All-In)</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls t2545.

Flop: (t6140) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t6140) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t6140) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t6140

Results in white below: <font color="white">
UTG has Qc Kh (one pair, kings).
Hero has Ks 8d (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG wins t6140. </font>

Now you'll all think im nutso!
-Jason

[The Yugoslavian]

Ahhh, so you're not the complete maniac you make yourself out to be /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Actually, I've tried to watch many of the 200/15 2+2ers if I can find them playing a game and have noticed that tight seems to be right. You all are much tighter than I expect (for some reason) and save your aggressiveness for when it is necessary or when you're wielding a big stack at a tight table.

I think realizing that has helped me pull back my own aggressiveness to where it is much more selective. I don't make nearly as many tricky plays unless I feel I have a great read, there are huge blinds, or I can bully a tiny(ish) stack.

It seems that the SNG pros bide their time until the cards start hitting for them or they have correct odds to ram and jam with suboptimal cards.

Anyway, thanks for your response, I appreciate it! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[The Yugoslavian]

Did your opponent in the first hand have J4o or K4o?

As far as being nutso, the blinds are big enough in the last two examples to justify your pushing, right? I mean, you don't need too much folding equity to make those moves at least +CEV and probably +$EV.

I don't know if I like the first hand unless you have a read on the opponent. TPTK just doesn't seem to pan out enough when facing a big raise from your opponent. I don't see too many people going allin on the river like that with nothing -- it generally means they've been trapping or just hit some wacky two pair or trips. Do you think that play is poor enough at the 30/3 buyin that you would continue to play TPTK in the manner you did?

[lorinda]

I can take or leave the AJ hand, but probably find myself bailing more often than not.

Q7 seems fine, but you won't get me playing the K8!

(It falls under the category where we have disagreed in the past where raising into a caller spells doom)

Lori

[rachelwxm]

Really bad news for anyone playing at this level to see shark like you. /images/graemlins/blush.gif
Hope you could provide some general comments in how to beat this level.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[durron597]

I'm going to have to go with lorinda on this one.

The first hand looks like you just got successfully priced in to call with you entire stack.

The second hand is great, you just ran into someone who either doesn't understand the bubble or understands it really well, and understood you well enough to realize you probably didn't have a hand.

The third hand, I don't like this play because: 1) UTG could very easily be trapping, if not 1) then 2) UTG may be willing to call with any ace and thus you are a 60/40 dog, and most importantly 3) Because the SB and BB have only 3 BB or less, they may be pressed to call with any two cards. I like the play better if they're a touch larger. Unless you're saying this play is good because they're BOTH shortstacked?

I once had a tournament where both of the guys on my left were folding to pretty much every single big bet from me (4 handed). The blinds got huge and I let the other remaining player take more pots than he had a right to take because I was taking even more pots than that: so it went from like going around to the left starting with me 5000/4000/4500/1500 to 11000/bust/200/3800. Sure, the other guy built his stack up too, but IMO it's ok to let him get some pots as long as your stack is increasing much faster.

[PrayingMantis]

My opinion (for this buy-in) is that the first hand is marginal, and player dependant. I don't like it too much.

The second is pretty much standard.

The third is a move that is generally -EV in these levels. You are punishing yourself rather than the player who's limping.

[Jason Strasser]

I agree with EVERYONE who says my K8o play sucks for this level. Quite frankly, at this level it is pure noobness. The opposition just will not fold enough, and I need them to fold a lot for this play to work.

The AJo hand was odd. Because on the flop I thought I was ahead, on the turn I was convinced I was ahead, and on the river I was flat out confused. Anyway, he had Jx where X was not a 2-pair. I think it was like J8. I'm not really in love with the hand.

-Jason