Pot Odds Questions

[Vermicious Knid]

60 person B&M tournament. We are down to 7 players. 7th place gets their money back. 6th only gets 1.5 times their money. Blinds are 1500-3000 with 500 antes. I start the hand in question with 5500, but had to ante 500 and post the 3k big blind. I now have only 2k behind. It is folded to the cutoff who goes all in for 5k (he is the only other short stack at the table). Everyone else folds. There is $5k in dead money ($3,500 in antes and $1.5k SB), my 3k and his 5k in the pot. I am getting 6.5 to 1 on my call. If I fold this hand, I will be all in on the SB next hand.

I thought about calling without looking. I looked and saw 93o. I decided to call anyway. My opponent had AKo. He won, but several of the players at the table made fun of me for calling for all of my chips with 93o.

Is there anyway you fold in this scenario? Should I have just done it blind so that I couldn't second guess myself when I looked at crap?

[Mattymar]

I'm sure you'll get better answers than mine, but I don't think you can fold there. Next hand you'll be all in with no choice and less chips to potentially build your stack. With the BB+ante being well more than half your stack I think it's an easy automatic call and hope for the best. You actually weren't even all that big an underdog in that situation. I'd say definite automatic call.

[AceKQJT]

I NEVER look in that situation...I just throw the rest of my chips in, then flip my cards over. On those occasions when I have the best hand at the end, I make some comment like: "You try to steal MY blind and you are gonna be putting some chips at risk...I'll call!" /images/graemlins/grin.gif

--Casey

[woodguy]

Autocall, regardless of the cards, the other players obviously can't count.

I like Casey's idea of not even looking to send a message (should you win the hand), I got the same advice from Che when I posted a similar hand.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Greg (FossilMan)]

The guys who were making fun of you were either morons, or they're trying to teach you to play badly so they'll have more edge on you next time.

This call is 100% correct. And, now, say it with me, "It's not even close."

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[smoore]

yeah man, next time just put your other 2k in there without looking at your cards, those people making fun of you are the morons you see at the online MTTs all the time folding thier BB when someone puts them all-in with a 2xBB raise

[Bernas]

Hi Greg,

I agree that this is definitely a must call.

One question though. Would it not of been better if he had pushed the hand before when he was UTG?

Cheers,
Brad

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Quite possibly. However, if he had a truly horrible hand UTG and knew he was going to get called, then it certainly would be better to post the blind and play that hand instead. However, there often was some hand he could've and should've played somewhere this orbit that would've been better than waiting. However, sometimes not.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[joeboe2001]

The way I see it, you had a much better chance being all in on the next hand than you did given your 93o and your opponent's action. I am no expert, but it seems to be common sense. :confused:

[Vermicious Knid]

Greg,

Thanks for the response. I was just itching to shove my stack in during the previous orbit. Early in the orbit, I had some very aggressive players raising in front of me. My all-in would have basically been a call. The best hand I folded was Q7s (UTG raised and someone else called before it got to me). When the big blind got closer to me I got 95o, 83o, and 32o (utg hand).

If this were a tournament without antes and I would have had enough money to pass the SB and thus get a free orbit, would you still recommend calling given the pot odds?

[MaGi]

It would have been a terrible fold, like other people said, it didnt matter what he had at all, he didn't need to look.

[young nut]

with your hand getting about 33% to win vs. AK's 67% , you most definitely were correct to call for 6.5 to 1.

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_odds/texas_holdem/index.php?stats=Tzo4OiJzdGRDbGFzcyI6MjE6e3M6MzoiY2 xpIjtzOjIzOiIxMDAwMDAgMiAwIEFTIEtEIDlDIDNIICI7czox MToibnVtX3BsYXllcnMiO3M6MToiMiI7czoxODoibnVtX2Nhcm RzX29uX2JvYXJkIjtzOjE6IjAiO3M6MTc6Im51bV9jYXJkc190 b19kcmF3IjtzOjE6IjUiO3M6MTQ6Im51bV91c2VkX2NhcmRzIj tzOjE6IjQiO3M6MTc6Im51bV9jYXJkc19pbl9kZWNrIjtzOjI6 IjQ4IjtzOjE4OiJudW1fcG9zc2libGVfaGFuZHMiO3M6NzoiMT cxMjMwNCI7czo5OiJudW1fZGVhbHMiO3M6NjoiMTAwMDAwIjtz OjE0OiJwbGF5ZXJfMV9jYXJkcyI7czo1OiJBUyBLRCI7czoxND oicGxheWVyXzJfY2FyZHMiO3M6NToiOUMgM0giO3M6OToidGhl X2JvYXJkIjtzOjA6IiI7czoxNzoicGxheWVyXzFfd2luc3RpZX MiO3M6MTI6IjY3MDE2LjUwMDAwMCI7czoxMzoicGxheWVyXzFf d2lucyI7czo1OiI2NjgyMCI7czoxMzoicGxheWVyXzFfdGllcy I7czozOiIzOTMiO3M6MTU6InBsYXllcl8xX2xvc3NlcyI7czo1 OiIzMjc4NyI7czoxNzoicGxheWVyXzJfd2luc3RpZXMiO3M6MT I6IjMyOTgzLjUwMDAwMCI7czoxMzoicGxheWVyXzJfd2lucyI7 czo1OiIzMjc4NyI7czoxMzoicGxheWVyXzJfdGllcyI7czozOi IzOTMiO3M6MTU6InBsYXllcl8yX2xvc3NlcyI7czo1OiI2Njgy MCI7czoxNToicHJvY2Vzc2luZ190aW1lIjtzOjU6IjIuNzg1Ij tzOjM6InBjdCI7YToyOntpOjE7czo1OiI2Ny4wJSI7aToyO3M6 NToiMzMuMCUiO319

[Greg (FossilMan)]

[ QUOTE ]
If this were a tournament without antes and I would have had enough money to pass the SB and thus get a free orbit, would you still recommend calling given the pot odds?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. The edge you're getting on this call is huge. It's too big to pass up pretty much no matter what.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[joeboe2001]

Young Nut--those odds are inappropriate, in my opinion.

Before calling, you have no idea whether the other hand was AK, AA, KK or another 93. Random simulations show that the 93 would have about a 3 percent chance of winning.

Additionally, even with one chance out of 3 at winning, you are taking one chance at "tomorrow" versus 2 chances at "no tomorrow" when you could have a definite (but insecure!) "tomorrow" by folding. Having a one out of 33 chance of winning--which is the case, since you really have no idea what the other person's cards are--makes it all the more dubious a decision to just throw your chips in without looking.

The idea is to make it to the final hand and win--the closer you make it the better. Where there is life there is hope!!!

[fnurt]

Try looking at it this way.

If you call, you will win 33% of the time, and have 15000 in chips.

If you fold, you will have 2000 chips. What are your odds of building those 2000 chips into 15000 before you bust out? I hope it is obvious that they are much less than 33%.

There is no road to victory in this tournament that does not involve increasing your stack to 15000 chips at some point. Calling on this hand gives you the best chance to get there. Thus, the call is clear.